Wife Getting Uppity

Discussion in 'Sex and Relationships' started by Logger, Feb 25, 2004.

  1. Logger

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    So I am feeling that my wife is not giving me a fair share of the space in the house. I give her the first floor, deocrated how she wants it, and I ask for the bassement and share the second floor. My wife says she wants to take over the basement.

    I often feel that I should not be too assertive with my wife, as I get only a small amount of cooperation in the marital bedroom, as it is.

    So what if I take the position that the massage does not start, until she provides head? The idea is oaf my wife showing me respect. What if I just offer to let her go down, and usually she passes off on that, and what if I just leave things alone after that, and try again in a few hours, but just keep waiting for days and weeks?

    Will she eventually give in? Should I be worried, that if I don't do everything to try to please her, that she might have an affair? Should I hope I get the idea of an affair, so that I can hire a PI, and get a fault basis for a divorce?

    I'm not sure those gay couples are going to be so happy about being married when they find out what the problems are.
     
  2. farspark

    farspark New Member

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    Sorry, you're having a bad time dude. Sounds like the issues are not the sort that benefit from "being more assertive", although expressing your frustration (in a respectful way of course) might be a step in the right direction. Here are a few other thoughts:

    - How long have you been married? All long-term relationship have rocky bits, although some are more rocky than others.

    - Is there other stuff outside the relationship that is going on? Bad jobs, bad projects (home renovations?), bad other-relationships etc can create stress for individuals and impact on the health of the relationship. My partner and I had a rocky patch for about a year when she was really hating a job that she couldn't get out of. We didn't get to the point that we were talking about breaking-up, but it definately impacted negatively on our sex-life. Now, however, we are several more years down the track and blissfully happy again, and in retrospect our relationship issues during the rocky patch were clearly related to stresses from outside the relationship.

    - How happy were you before you got together with your wife? Were you footloose and fancy free, enjoy the single-life that you now pine for, or did you always feel like there was someone missing from your life and you were on the continue hunt to find her? For example, you might not be getting the kind of head you want now, but were you getting any action of the "right" sort prior to your relationship? Life in relationships, even if hardwork, may be preferable to life out of relationships... Solution: count your blessings.

    - Talk about your language of love. Different people have different ways of communicating love. Here's a short list: 1. Love gifts - giving presents to communicate love, 2. Love deeds - doing things for ones partner (it may even be taking out the garbage) to communicate one's love, 3. Love talks - saying "fuck you make me hot" (aka. chick version: "You have the most beautiful eyes") etc, 4. Love acts - private: kissing, licking, touching, hugging and public: kissing in public etc. The point is that if your language of love is of the "love acts" sort, and your wife's language of love is more inclined towards "love deeds" or "love gifts", you may not be communicating love to each other in a way that the other understands or appreciated. Not communicating love = no feelings of being loved = problems. Talk about what things make you feel loved. Agree to start using the other's love language a set number of times each week etc... This said, if she really hates giving head, and you really hate doing the garbage (or whatever) this may involve some negotiation.

    - But perhaps you are no longer love one another? Perhaps, you are looking for a way out? I have no experience with this myself, but presume that identifying this as a fact (if it is) and acting on this early (and respectfully) is possibly the quickest approach to breaking-up, with less risk on emotional tumoil.

    But then again, what the hell do I know. Perhaps getting advice of the internet is fair inferior to getting it in life off friends/professionals??
     
  3. KoenigNazgul

    KoenigNazgul New Member

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    Farspark is onto an idea that is talked about extensively in a book, the idea of love languages. The book is called The Five Love Languages. As per your issues, stand up for what you need, be willing to concede what you want, but only a little. Be assertive for yourself but understanding of your wife's needs, a little bit of trade-off and sacrifice must happen from both sides for the ideal situation to occur.
     
  4. farspark

    farspark New Member

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    Ah! A citation! Thanks for this... I heard it somewhere, can't remember where, but it made a lot of sense to me. I think I might track this book down myself.
     
  5. Da_Vamp

    Da_Vamp New Member

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    This book you guys are talking about sounds interesting! I think I'll go and check it out!!!

    Vampie
     
  6. Logger

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    Dear Farspark.,

    You have asked a number of questions, so I will copy your post here, so I can insert my Answers, and try not to miss any of your questions. You have made a number of thoughtful posts on the Forum, and I have enjoyed your contributions.

    It may be best if I just take a damage control approach on this marriage, and just try to limit getting myself hurt. I had some friends that I thought treated their wives in a rather distant manner, but I am beginning to see the downside of trying to be a good guy, and extending blind trust. I might be better to not extend my hand, so that way, my hand would not get chewed on quite so much.

    Farspark:
    Sorry, you're having a bad time dude. Sounds like the issues are not the sort that benefit from "being more assertive", although expressing your frustration (in a respectful way of course) might be a step in the right direction.

    LOGGER
    MY WIFE IS AWARE OF MY IDEAS, AND OF HOW MY IDEAS DIFFER FROM HERS. MY WIFE SIMPLY FEELS THAT SHE CAN IGNORE MY IDEAS, AND BE SNEAKY ABOUT ENFORCING SOME OF HER IDEAS. I TRY TO PRESENT THINGS, AND GET HER AGREEMENT BEFORE PROCEEDING ON PURCHASES, ETC.


    Here are a few other thoughts:

    - How long have you been married? 28 YEARS

    All long-term relationship have rocky bits, although some are more rocky than others.

    WHAT I SEE HAS CHANGED, IS THAT THE KIDS ARE GROWN, AND TEHRE ARE MORE OPTIONS NOW, AND WE DISAGREE MORE. ONE CHILD IS NOT YET FULLY SELF-SUPPORTING, BUT IS CLOSE. THE IDEA THAT THIS IS A ROUGH SPOT IS OK, EXCPET I DON'T SEE ANYCHANGES COMING UP, EXCEPT FRO HER COMING UP WIITH MORE IDEAS THAT ARE DIFFERENT FROM MINE.

    - Is there other stuff outside the relationship that is going on? Bad jobs, bad projects (home renovations?), bad other-relationships etc can create stress for individuals and impact on the health of the relationship.

    JUST ONE KID NOT YET SELF-SUPPORTING, AND THAT IS A DRAG ON THE BUDGET. MY WIFE IS INTERESTING AS SHE COMES UP WITH FRESH IDEAS AND APPROACHES, BUT SHE IS ALSO HIGHTLY OPPOSTION, AND SHORT OF ATTENTION. I WOULD SAY ADHD-ODD. tEHR IS HIGHLY COOPERATIVE AND TEHRE IS HIGHLY OPPOSITIONAL. HIGLY OPP9OSTIONAL IS LESS TAHN TOTALLY PLEASANT, SO I CAN SIMPLY REDUCE CONTAC, THERBY REDUCING UNPLEASNT TIMES.

    My partner and I had a rocky patch for about a year when she was really hating a job that she couldn't get out of. We didn't get to the point that we were talking about breaking-up, but it definately impacted negatively on our sex-life. Now, however, we are several more years down the track and blissfully happy again, and in retrospect our relationship issues during the rocky patch were clearly related to stresses from outside the relationship.

    MY WIFE HAS HAD THE SAME JOB FOR YEARS. THERE IS SOME STRESS, AND NEW CHALLENGES, BUT SHE ALSO WORKS PART-TIME, PARTLY FOR ONE KID STILL IN COLLEGE.

    - How happy were you before you got together with your wife? Were you footloose and fancy free, enjoy the single-life that you now pine for, or did you always feel like there was someone missing from your life and you were on the continue hunt to find her? For example, you might not be getting the kind of head you want now, but were you getting any action of the "right" sort prior to your relationship?

    THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES IN MY LIFE WHEN I HAVE BEEN LONELY FOR A YEAR OR TWO. BUT I HAVE TAKEN COMMUNICATION COURSES, AND IMPROVED MY LISTENING SKILLS, AND I DON'T FEEL LIKE I WOULD BE LONELY, AS SINGLE. I MORE PREFER A RELATAIONSHIP, BUT I DON'T SEE A PROBLEM ESTABLSIHING A NEW RELATIONSHIP. THE QUESTION I THINK ABOUT, IT HOW LONG SHOULD I LET THIS RELATIONSHIP PULL ME DOWN?

    Life in relationships, even if hardwork, may be preferable to life out of relationships... Solution: count your blessings.

    THER ARE SOME ADVANTAGES AND BLESSINGS. IT IS NOT ZERO. BUT I ALSO WORK AT THE RELATINSHIP, AND I AM THINKING ABOUT HAVING A BETTER BALANCE, BY NOT PUTTING AS MUCH INTO IT.

    - Talk about your language of love. Different people have different ways of communicating love. Here's a short list: 1. Love gifts - giving presents to communicate love, 2. Love deeds - doing things for ones partner (it may even be taking out the garbage) to communicate one's love, 3. Love talks - saying "fuck you make me hot" (aka. chick version: "You have the most beautiful eyes") etc, 4. Love acts - private: kissing, licking, touching, hugging and public: kissing in public etc. The point is that if your language of love is of the "love acts" sort, and your wife's language of love is more inclined towards "love deeds" or "love gifts", you may not be communicating love to each other in a way that the other understands or appreciated. Not communicating love = no feelings of being loved = problems. Talk about what things make you feel loved. Agree to start using the other's love language a set number of times each week etc... This said, if she really hates giving head, and you really hate doing the garbage (or whatever) this may involve some negotiation.


    CALLING MY WIFE AT LUNCH OR QUITTING TIME, JUST WITH SWEET NOTHINGS, SEEMS TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. BUT GOING HOME AND HAVING MY IDEAS AND NEEDS IGNORED IS KIND OF A DRAG. PUTTING MY NEEDS FOR SEX ASIDE, I MEAN JUST TUNING INTO WHAT LAUNDRY NEEDS DOING, WHAT SHOPING NEEDS DOING,, OR WHAT BILLS OR TAXES NEED TO BE WORKED ON. MY WIFE ZEROS IN ON SOME ISSUE THAT ISSEMI-IMPORTANT AND RAGS ON IT, IGNORING EVERYTHING ELSE THAT IS BEHIND, OR NEEDS DOING. I HAVE TAKEN HER TO LUNCH ONCE A WEEK, THE LAST FEW WEEKS, AND HAVE HAD FAIRLY CIVIL DISCUSSIONS OF SOME OF MY ISSUES.

    - But perhaps you are no longer love one another? Perhaps, you are looking for a way out?

    THE WAY OUT IS FAIRLY SIMPLE. PUT MY STUFF IN STRORAGE, RENT AN APARTMENT, AND STOP MAKING HOUSE PAYMENTS. THEN SHE CAN EITHER TAKE OVER THE HOUSE PAYMENTS, OR SELL THE HOUSE. LOVE IS AN EMOTION THAT GOES UP AND DOWN. I AM LOOKING AT THE OVERLL FUTURE, AS EITHER IMPROVING, OR CONTINUING TO GO DOWNHILL.

    I have no experience with this myself, but presume that identifying this as a fact (if it is) and acting on this early (and respectfully) is possibly the quickest approach to breaking-up, with less risk on emotional tumoil.

    I MAY JUST MINIMIZE MY SUPPORT FOR THE MARRIAGE, AND SEE IF IT STANDS ON ITS OWN WEIGHT. I CAN PROBABLY DO A BETTER JOB OF INSULATING MYSELF FROM MY WIFE'S IMPULSSIVE OUTBURSTS, WHICH ARE NOT THAT FDREQUENT. I CAN SIMPLY STRUCTURE MORE TIME AWAY FROM HOME, DOING BILLS AND FAMILY CHORES AT STORES AND THE LIBRARY.

    But then again, what the hell do I know. Perhaps getting advice of the internet is fair inferior to getting it in life off friends/professionals??

    I HAVE BEEN IN MARRIAGE COUNSELING, BUT MY WIFE IS OPOSED TO COUNSELING OR SELF-IMPROVEMENT NOW. I HAVE SELF-IMPROVEMENT TAPES AND BOOKS. I HAVE MARRIAGE BOOKS. I HAVE A LIFE-COACH I CAN TELPHONE. I HAVE A PRAYER COUNSELOR, TO MEET FOR ENCORAGEMENT. MY HEALTH PLAN HAS COUNSELING. I HAVE GONE TO MARIAGE COUNSELING BY MYSELF BEFORE. ANSWERING QUESTIONS ON THE INTERNET IS PROBABLY A GOOD EXERCISE IN REFLECTION.

    __________________[/FONT] [/SIZE]
     
    #6 Logger, Feb 28, 2004
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2004
  7. killjoy

    killjoy New Member

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    His needs, Her needs Building an affair proof marriage. By Willard F. Harley Jr.
    Its an awesome book, and could easily explain the situation between you and your wife ....... its worth its weight in gold.......
     
  8. Logger

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    Marital Time investments

    That is a good recommendation, and I have the "His Needs and Her Needs book. I have been putting time into the marriage, but my wife has not been very accomodating of my ideas, and I feel like I should just minimize the time spent on this marriage, as more time and effort are not paying off.

    How long can a marriage last without really trying? I am more interested in having my ideas at least respected, if not nurtured. We have not set up good accommodations for each other. I may just conduct myself so as to minimize my risk of shor-term hurt.

    I gave my wife a back massage, she said she found it stimulating, and got out of bed a read the Bible for an hour or two. Not really what I had in mind. First I should check to see if she is interested in sex, befor I wase a half our on a massage for the Bible.
     
  9. farspark

    farspark New Member

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    Hi Logger,
    I've been away, so haven't had a chance to comment your replies recently, but just want to say that I respect your candor in this thread and the related one on "martial compromise". These are challenging issues in many relationships, I suspect. I heard it once described as a "desire discrepancy" - where two people have different levels of sexual desire, which can create conflict in a relationship. One person ends up constantly the pursuer/initiator and the other ends up constantly pushing away (i.e. "not tonight, I have a headache"). The behavior become a learned response. Creating a space where the "pursuer" can express their feelings without immediately putting their partner into their "not tonight" mode is surely difficult.

    The other aspect of this is the "compromise" thing. I agree with you that there is a bit of a bind here - on one hand, one needs to be extremely giving and respectful in a relationship, and yet on the other hand no sane man/woman want to be in a relationship with a walking, talking doormat. Doormats-type people are definately not considered fabulous sexual partners. Mind you, neither are selfish-types...

    I myself have no answers (and would argue that there are no absolute answers in this regard - no magic bullet), but suspect that it comes back to what you and many others have talked about on this forum - two (or more :D) people talking it over.

    I find you references to religion also interesting. I'm not Christian myself. More an agnostic-type with pagan tendancies. A heathen in other words. But sex for me can be a fairly spiritual experience. This is another thread perhaps, but what is the relationship between religion and sex in your marriage? I'd be interested in your perspective (or anyone else's for that matter). Does religion have a positive or negative influence on your sex life?
     
  10. Logger

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    Spirituality

    Dear Farspark,

    I have started a new thread on Religion and marriage. I wish it was on the spritual joys of marriage and sex. Unfortunately, my wife seems to get off on pulling the rug out from under my feet, just to watch my consternation when I am falling.

    My wife was going along with watching erotic videos once in a while, but now is getting oppositional. So I started a thread on that. Perahaps there is a ritual during marital sex, that would create undying spiritual allegeiance from my wife. If I discover the ritual practice, I will let you know.
     
  11. foxie

    foxie New Member

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    Hey Logger, I've been reading some of your posts on other topics, and iyour candor with others is greatly appreciated.

    One thing that jumped to my mind when reading through this thread--you mentioned that your kids are pretty much out and grown, and you are back to just you as a couple. Could most of this have to do with adjustment to the new situation and her trying to adapt?

    Just something to think about.
     
  12. Logger

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    Dear Foxie,

    Thanks for the reply and the ideas. Welcome to SF.

    My wife has since changed her mind on the basement. I was given the basement back in about March.

    It is true that marriages go through stages. My wife and I agree on a number of projects for the household. Some things we disagree about. My wife wants hardwood floors in the kitchen and living room. I prefer keeping carpet in the living room.

    I would like to have a game table and chairs with a TV in a corner of the living room, for socializing, playing cards, discussing plans, working on projects, and watching TV. My wife wants two wing chairs in that space, with a china cabinet. I believe that seldom used dishes can be stored in boxes, my wife believes in china cabinets. We need to buy another car, and I believe a larger sedan would be safest, but my wife and son believe that a Mini-Van would have more room for their junk. My son acts independed, but is still driing a family car.

    I am still working on my Boundaries books by Cloud and Townsend.

    My wife willl sometimes come up with statements like, "I deserve A, B and C, and I am not going to settle for less in this marriage." I try to make the topic of conversation to be the way we discuss and negotiate.

    I say, "Well, ordinarily one spouse says what their ideas are of how they would like things to be, and then they ask the other spouse for thier ideas, and then they discuss the two sets of ideas, to find areas of agreement, and areas of divergence. Then we discuss the divergent issues over time, to find closer agreements. Not just blast out your final positon in a bang."

    So that is my vent for the moment Any ways in which you see those around you should change?

    Blessings