The case for virginity

Discussion in 'Sex and Relationships' started by daver, Jan 4, 2011.

  1. daver

    daver New Member

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    I've never been all that impressed with arguments for abstinence, but my current relationship has been somewhat educational. The girl I'm seeing is a virgin. We've had all forms of sex over the past three months, absent anything involving what's below my belt - I've kept my pants on, while she has, over time, gradually removed every bit of apparel, allowing me to explore how to satisfy her manually and orally. (OK, I realize that people may have different definitions of virginity, but for purposes of this discussion, let's call it never having screwed.)

    What I find surprising is how easily I accept this state of affairs. We've talked of marriage, and while she may decide to go for "home plate" before that day comes, I am perfectly happy to leave that decision in her court.

    I never before thought I could tolerate going without screwing for so long in a physical relationship. But I see that there are two key elements here that make that possible: 1), I'm crazy about her, which helps a lot, and 2), she's a virgin.

    On that second point, this has been kind of illuminating. Were she not a virgin, yet were insisting on abstinence with me, my horniness would be intolerable. It's not that I'd be feeling resentful that she had been willing to screw one or more other guys but not me. (Although that would undoubtedly weigh on my mind.) It's just that there'd be a certain unconscious awareness in the back of my mind that copulation was "on the table" -- an option that, sooner or later, if I played my cards right, she would probably exercise. But as it is, and knowing that she comes from a family and culture (Asian) where virginity before marriage is still highly valued, it makes it easy to put out of my mind the whole possibility of moving to the next level. Yes, I'm horny; yes, I want to f*** her brains out - but it's not driving me insane.

    So, my point is, this is not so much a case for abstinence as it is a case for virginity before marriage. And girls, it might also be a good case for being less than forthright: that is, if you meet a guy with whom you want to have a serious relationship, but want to take it slowly, you may want to consider telling him you're a virgin, even if you're not. It just might make it a whole lot easier on him. (And if you feel guilty about lying, tell him the truth after you consummate the relationship - he may even thank you for it.)

    [Disclaimer: I am not advocating a mass movement toward premarital abstinence. I am greatly indebted to the many women who have willingly "given it up" for me, and certainly don't want to promote any trends that would leave more young men frustrated and spending ever more nights jerking off in front of their computer screens. This is just a personal observation I found interesting.]
     
  2. DarkJewel

    DarkJewel New Member

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    I'll let ya know
    That's good because that would mean you thought all people still wanted to get married, and I have heard marriage is actually on the decline...(don't ask me to prove this,it is something I read a while ago and I don't have a link)


    Having said that,ALL PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT,so if it works for you guys that great and more power to you.
    There is a certain dignity about holding out for someone you really respect.
    I have to say I'm glad I had sex before marriage though,because I believe in trying something before you buy it.
     
  3. daver

    daver New Member

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    Well, it's not really about marriage, it's about virginity (or, as I wrote, even the pretense of virginity) before embarking on any relationship in which the woman is uncertain about whether, or how soon, she wants to go all the way. And yes, most definitely, all people are different, and the fact that my girlfriend's virginity helps keep my "lust" in check is no assurance that the same works for all men. I'm just expressing a certain degree of awe at the effect it's had on my own psyche.

    Please understand that what I've written is intended to be descriptive rather than prescriptive. And I have to agree with you that, on the whole, I think most women are well-advised to experiment (carefully) before making a lifetime commitment.
     
  4. Texas_Red

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    I get the case you're trying to build, but I doubt many guys are willing to put up with such a one sided sex life for very long. I know I wouldn't be.
     
  5. backcheck64

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    My fathers a marriage counseler and studies show a noticably higher divorce rate for those that are virgins at the time of marriage. My personal observations seem to support this. None of the people I know that were virgins at marriage are still married, seems curiostiy is a bitch after a few years of marriage. Neither my wife or I were (I had a lot of miles on the odomerter, and 24yrs and still solid.

    But whatever floats your boat. I'd never buy without a test drive or two.
     
  6. htoad

    htoad Active Member

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    I have seen different studies that say the opposite. And I know of several very religious friends from college who married as virgins and are still happy together after many years. The studies do not go into the reasons for the marriage break up - and financial issues are still the number one reasons marriages break up, not sex. It just goes to show that one can make social statistics and anecdotes seem what one wants. :)

    Perhaps what really has to be considered is: is someone remaining a virgin out of desire (e.g. "I think sex is great but want to share it with someone I feel is very special to me") or guilt (e.g. "If I don't remain a virgin something bad will happen to me") or fear (e.g. "I am a virgin because I'm afraid of the thought of sex"). I can see someone who stays a virgin but is looking forward to having sex in marriage with someone who feels the same way being more likely to have a strong, lasting marriage than someone feeling pressured by guilt or fear to remain a virgin, as marriage may not make those feelings go away.

    While my Bunnie and I did not wait until we married before having sex, both of us being virgins we took a slower road to increase our intimacy, and once we started having sex neither of us felt any desire to have sex with anyone else. I think the important thing is to be on the same page regarding sex. I would include in that those who are both virgins out of desire and willing to wait, or those where one is a virgin and the other willing to wait.
     
  7. backcheck64

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    Believe what you like, my father has only been doing this for 45yrs and seen it all. His dealings bear out the studies that show virginity at marriage is a detriment. And while financial reasons are number one, sexual dissatisfaction and curiosity are a VERY close second. And religion makes people do some pretty stupid shit.
     
  8. htoad

    htoad Active Member

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    I've got nothing against your father, but doing something for 45 years does not make one the only expert in a field. I am only saying that for every "expert" such as your father, I can find an "expert" that says the exact opposite. That is why social sciences are more art than science. After all, why do most studies show that people who cohabit before marriage have a higher divorce rate than those who do not? You would expect them to have a lower rate since they have been sexually active and therefore know what they were getting into before marriage. It is very difficult to pinpoint sexuality as the single cause in most cases. It is more a symptom than an root cause. :)

    I respect religious folks, and I also see sorts of non-religious thought making people do "stupid shit" as well. Just look at Stalin, Hitler, and Mao as examples. The bottom line is that people are inherently selfish and will gravitate towards whatever philosophy and actions - religious or non-religious - than benefit them. I still see successful marriages being successful based on the common agreements of the spouses, and that can include virginity before marriage as well. :)
     
  9. backcheck64

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    Can't speak for Stalin or Mao, but Hitler was Catholic. Stats to show those that live together before marriage do have a higher divorce rate, though my wife and I dated, and did most everything else, before marriage, we never lived together before the wedding. Never said virginity can't work, but it brings other issues into the frey.

    I look at it this way, I personally take my vows seriously, if I'm going to spend the rest of my life with a person, I'm going to make damn sure she is the most perfect match I can get on all levels. Love alone will not do it, sex alone doesn't cut it, friendship alone falls short.....it takes all the above along with similar interests in activities, views on children and child rearing to make a lifelong commitment.
     
  10. htoad

    htoad Active Member

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    Actually, Hitler wasn't Catholic. He leveraged the church to get what he wanted, but he also talked out of both sides of his mouth. That is clear in his writings and in the writings of his Nazi associates. In my view, show me ones actions and I'll show you their religion. :)

    I do agree with your last paragraph. It is too simple to say "if you stay a virgin until you are married, your marriage will be perfect". It is also too simple to say "if you sleep around before marriage to find someone you sexually like, your marriage will be perfect". It takes a combination of factors, such as the ones you mentioned, including a degree of faith in the future. If both share these goals then virginity or non virginity is not the issue.
     
  11. backcheck64

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    Hitler was raised catholic, and technically remaind catholic, I'm not saying exactly how I know, but I'm only third generation American and have plenty of family back in the fatherland. His writings were far more propeganda than his actual beliefs. It got him what he wanted.
     
  12. Godiva

    Godiva Member

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    Interesting.... i was a virgin and for most of my life wanted to remain that way till my wedding day...but reading places and the fear of DEATH made me slip up on purpose. I was scared i'd die a virgin. Now that i've tried i do wish i waited to make the wedding night more special. Oh well! No marriage now! :)

    I'm glad it affected you well!!! My ex was not bothered at all. Infact every boyfriend was surprisingly really ok with it. I even told them they were allowed to be with other girls but they got mad i would say that.

    I'm glad it's working out great for you two! :)
     
  13. backcheck64

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    It's your life to do what you will, but, how could you commit the rest of your life to someone who may be the sexual opposite of you. I couldn't be married to someone who didn't have very similar sex patterns.

    And as far as this whole fantasy about the wedding night that movies have built up, I hardly know anyone that had sex thier wedding night. Maybe it's the area I live in, but wedding receptions last till midnight or 1am. By the time you get home, you're too exhausted to even enjoy it if you do it. You're up early to prepare, have the ceremony, pictures, then reception/dinner and dance..... or many leave for the airport to head out on thier honeymoon.... We got back to our place about 1:30am after starting 18 hours prior, we just crashed, slept till about 9am, then fucked like rabbits the next day till about 7pm as friends showed up at 8pm to continue the party.
     
  14. Voracious

    Voracious New Member

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    Me & my husband both married as virgins, my hymen was so intact after the wedding, I was scheduled for a Hymenecomy by my Obgyn to break it but found I was pregnant at 3 months, so couldn't get it done.

    While dating, we had quite the roaming hands, I was a Christian and felt bad about that, but I have no regrets today, looking back, that was the only sane thing to do, we probably should have done more -like oral. I touched him to orgasm, he did me, but we were never entirely naked with each other till marraige. Still happily married today after 21 yrs, he has never been with another, neither have I.

    I recently entered that "Cougar" stage where my sex drive went through the roof, now I want it more than him. Really enjoy these sex forums, this is a new one for me.
    I have a 20 yr old son who is still a Virgin by choice, good looking but very moral. I think he needs to get out and live a little. He feels what me & his dad did was "currupt". We talk about it all. He is very much into that "Silver Ring Thing" movement.