Soul mate? Really need some advice from the ladies...

Discussion in 'Sex and Relationships' started by AvgGuy, Sep 24, 2007.

  1. AvgGuy

    AvgGuy New Member

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    OK, so I've got this friend whom I'm really close to. I've known her for over a decade, and I've always thought she is just the sweetest woman I have ever met. I'm married and so is she, and in fact the four of us have been friends for over a decade. Both of us have kids with our spouses. Out of the four of us, she and I really connect...we're very much alike, value the same things, think about things in a very similar way, we're both laid-back and easygoing, we both like a lot of the same things, and her and I can talk about just about anything, even awkward stuff. In fact, our spouses would probably be quite pissed and/or jealous if they knew some of the conversations we've had. In addition to being probably the most wonderful woman I've ever met on the inside, she's also quite gorgeous on the outside. I'm pretty average or maybe just a little above average myself...I'm reasonably attractive, definitely not ugly or gross, but I'm not exactly a male underwear model either. I have quite a big heart compared to most men, and she recognizes and admires that. I'm one of those men that women just seem to love to have as a friend.

    The longer I know this woman, the more drawn to her I feel. The more we talk, the more drawn to her I feel. Both of us are with very difficult partners...both are nearly impossible to get along with, both are quite self-centered, demanding, often disrespectful, etc. My wife and I have good sex, but that's about all we have that is good. Her and her husband don't have that part. Both of us often feel like we have one foot out the door already.

    I used to lust after this woman, but over the years I've come to realize that I love her for what's on the inside even more than I love her for her looks. I used to think about sleeping with her a lot (although I have never attempted to act on those thoughts), but now I find myself thinking more about just spending time with her and less about having sex with her. I feel like this person is probably my soul-mate. I couldn't imagine ever even fighting with this person...we are both so reasonable in how we go about things that I really think we'd be able to work through disagreements without them exploding into big arguments. I don't think I'd even want to have an affair with this person...I don't think I would be happy with something that's temporary. I feel like I know without any doubt that I could be completely happy growing old with this woman, and I don't even have to sleep with her first to know that! Have I gushed enough about her already?

    And I've learned over the years that she feels very strongly about me too. She tells me I'm kind and caring, tells me I'm like her dad (whom she loves most out of her immediate family), she has told me many times that I look nice, or smell nice, or feel nice during a hug. She'll tell me that she loves me (and I've always taken it to mean, just as a friend). She tells me that I'm her best-friend who's a man, and I feel like she's my best-friend who's a woman. We flirt with each other, but I've always thought it was just harmless play. We've even both alluded to the thought that we wish we were married to each other (I certainly have...I *think* that she has, but I'm not certain). Occassionally, I feel like I've made her a little uncomfortable...but then, I'm not sure if she might be uncomfortable with how I might make her feel, or whether she's uncomfortable with how she feels about me. She doesn't like to hurt other people and neither do I...we could obviously hurt our spouses and the other friendships. And that's the only thing stopping me...and since we think so much alike, it could be the only thing stopping her as well, assuming she feels the way I think she does. In fact, I've lived most of life putting other people first. I am so tempted to make a hugely selfish choice for once. I just get this feeling that she feels more strongly about me than she's letting me see, just like I'm doing with her.

    I wish I was married to this woman, and I am really kicking myself for not making some different choices a decade ago. Sometimes I think she feels the exact same way, sometimes I'm not sure. I do know that she loves me as a friend...I just can't quite tell if she really wants the friendship to turn into something romantic. I do want that (not sure I truly need it though), even though I know it would be a choice that would hurt other people. I have considered my children in these thoughts...I'm sure their mother would make things as ugly as she could and I would lose the friendship with her husband, but at least I know my friend already loves my kids, my kids love her, I already love her kids, and her kids love me. The two people who really get hurt are our spouses, not our kids (based on my best guesses). I'm tempted to say that maybe our spouses deserve it, but then no one really deserves to get hurt by someone else.

    I want so much to just sit her down and tell her how I truly feel about her with nothing held back. I am very afraid that she *might* not feel the same way, although I think that she does...the last thing I'd want to do is damage this close friendship. I'm almost comfortable doing this...we can talk about almost anything, so I actually feel comfortable about having the conversation with her. I just wouldn't want to damage our friendship...if I can't be married to her, at least I can still enjoy her company.

    Ladies, I really need some advice on this one...can you help me? I've struggled with the decision of whether or not to talk to her about it...any thoughts or suggestions?

    Ladies, let's put it this way (worst case): if your best friend who's a guy sat you down to have this conversation with you, and you didn't at all feel attracted to him or didn't have any interest in the friendship becoming something more...how would you feel about the guy after the conversation? Would you feel uncomfortable with him, or would you feel maybe even closer to him because he was completely honest about how he feels? Would it damage the friendship if he wanted more than you wanted and just told you that? I'm trying to think how I'd feel if one of my female friends whom I love but don't feel any passion for did the same thing with me...but I realize men and women are different in how we view emotional things.

    I *think* she feels the same way I do, but I'm just so relunctant to risk damaging the friendship...is it likely this talk would damage the friendship *if* she doesn't feel the same way? If it is likely, then I think I can find a way to just be happy having her friendship. If it's not likely, then I think I should have this talk with her. (If she feels the same way, then there's obviously no problem.) Thoughts?

    Update: I should add one more thing. I just can't see growing old with my current wife. I've thought about all this carefully. So, sooner or later, I feel pretty sure we are going to end up parting ways. Most days, I feel like I'd be happier alone (not even considering with another person). And I think the same is true for my friend. So, this other person isn't really a factor in whether I leave or not...I'd say she's more likely to be a factor in when I leave rather than if I leave.

    AvgGuy
     
    #1 AvgGuy, Sep 24, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2007
  2. Halogen

    Halogen New Member

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    It doesn't matter if she has feelings too. You're both married.

    Honestly, this sounds like a classic case of wondering if the grass is greener on the other side. The person you're not with always seems like a total soul mate, and after the initial thrill of the chase is gone, you find out that she's probably just as evenly matched for you as your wife.

    From what I've read, your marriage doesn't even sound bad! Instead of ruining two marriages, run, don't walk, to marriage counseling. And also consider growing up a little. You don't leave your wife of a decade because you're *whine!* boooored. Come now.
     
  3. bighiker2003

    bighiker2003 Banned

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    I am wndering why you are asking for Female
    advice only, And building yourself up to be the most wonderful
    person in the world.
    If your post is accurate anyone can answer it.
    I would say that you should walk away from that serino,
    Mabey She is the reason that you don't get along with your wife,
    Halogen may have it right. Just let it go.

    Hiker
     
  4. AvgGuy

    AvgGuy New Member

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    Actually, you have that part wrong guys. Both of our marriages are already pretty much in ruins. I'm not looking for a justification to leave my wife...I already have it. We've already been to counseling...I've changed things in myself for her, and she's changed almost nothing in return. Bored? I don't think so. I've treated her with kindness and respect 99% of the time since the day I met her. For a decade now, I've been dealing with her blowing the smallest disagreement completely out of proportion, screaming and cursing at me for hours, throwing things at me, calling me names, pretending to pack her clothes to leave, pretending to commit suicide to get her way...the list goes on and on. Does it sound like I'm just bored to you? Hardly. I'm weary, I'm frustrated, I'm exasperated...I've essentially given up on ever having the relationship with my wife that I actually want. I know this isn't the person I want to grow old with. The only reason that I've put up with all this crap for a decade is because I loved her when I married her and I've been completely committed to her and our marriage. Well, I'm tired of living this way. Whether I end up with the person above, someone else, or completely alone, at this point I feel like any of the three would be better than what I have now. If I were just after a piece of ass, I'd already be having an affair with the person mentioned, or someone else. The only reason I'm still here now is that we have kids. The person above may just be enough to kick me off the fence, so to speak. The person above is also pretty much on the way out, she's already suggested to her husband that he move out, and that has nothing to do with me and everything to do with him. In fact, I really care about this woman to the point that I've been suggesting things for her to do to maybe help things work better so that they don't split up for a couple years now. I've got a lot of conflicting emotions around all of it, but the one thing that I can see through all the dust is that I do love this woman and feel like every single thing I see suggests that we should actually be together.

    Believe whatever you want about me, I really don't care. I probably should have left out most of the details and just focused on the friendship vs. soul-mate question, because I can actually understand that this probably looks like a typical case of greener grass, but that's really not the case. I'm just hoping someone here will offer some heartfelt thoughts or guidance on my actual question.

    AvgGuy
     
    #4 AvgGuy, Sep 24, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2007
  5. loveit247

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    Ok, I think you should leave your wife if that is what you want.
    Take some time to heal, think about what you want, let your kids adjust.
    If this woman has feelings for you she will make them known once you have settled into single life. Do not make the mistake of pushing things with her right after leaving your wife. Keep a friendship going after you have left and see where it goes.

    I say you are playing with fire even thinking of this before either of you have left a marrige.
     
  6. Buffalo204

    Buffalo204 Member

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    I think you should leave your wife and get her to get divorced also then you two can hook up the next day.There now, you got the answer you were fishing for!! :yell
     
  7. jaguar

    jaguar New Member

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    I agree, I would not mention anything to this other women. You should concentrate on getting a divorce and have your own place. Take care of yourself first and the rest will come.
     
  8. AvgGuy

    AvgGuy New Member

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    You people are making me re-think this, so I do appreciate that. Not what I expected from a sexual forum, but it sounds like good advice. If I'm going to leave my wife, I should do that without any who's next arrangements. That certainly makes it less painful for my wife. My question was really not whether I should leave and pursue this other person, but how should I expect my friend to feel if I talk to her about how I feel about her. But sounds like the advice is don't talk to her about it. Why shouldn't I talk to her about it? Why would that be playing with fire? We've always been completely honest with each other. Help me understand this part, please.

    And regardless of how I come across, I do wish I had the same kind of relationship with my wife, and I've tried to make it that way...I'm just completely cooked from trying for a decade and not getting the desired result. I've changed things about my self to suit her, I'm the one who always gives in, I've been the one to set the examples of how I think we should treat each other, which is with kindness and respect. I keep hoping she'll get a clue and follow the examples that I've set, but she doesn't. She's far to self-centered to admit there's anything she should be doing different. And when I do get the strength to just leave, she won't take any responsibility for her part in my decision I'm sure. But I suppose that's just another reason I shouldn't be with her.

    Thanks for all the comments.

    AvgGuy
     
  9. LPjammin

    LPjammin New Member

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    Dude...


    ...you do a good job of telling the story from your viewpoint. Would your wife concur with your view? Do you think she has no interest in being happy with you? Do you think she's happy being unhappy?

    Come on man, you think she doesn't know how you are with this other woman? You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. What she sees is your patience and understanding and unfailing kindness and affection with the other chick. She feels betrayed by you, I'd bet on it, and she'd be right.

    In my book, you have an obligation to be married to the woman you are married to and to be the parents, together, of your children. Get your head out of your azz. Quit daydreaming of Utopia with this other woman and get to work, hard as you have to, on your marriage. It sure as hell ain't easy. Nothing worth having is, right?

    See where you are in 5 years. It's not just your life. It's not all about you right now.

    My $.02
     
  10. Barbwire

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    AvgGuy, OK, for the sake of arguement, I will believe that you are as you portray yourself. I will not attack you and question your honesty or motives, that is not my place, or anyone else's.

    Now, regarding the woman you are talking about, I would write her a letter telling her everything you have just told us about your feelings for her. If the two of you are as close as you say, I am sure she must already know how you feel about her, but a letter, written with an open heart is a beautiful thing indeed and it will give her time to let things sink in. Reading it alone will give her a chance to organize her thoughts and feelings before she has to talk to you face to face.

    Will she be happy? Will she be upset? Will it affect your relationship with her? I can't tell you that, but I can tell you it will do you no good to just sit there pining for her and not let her know.

    You say you are both heading for divorce in your respective marriages, that is why I'm not addressing the whole issue. You are beyond counselling at this point, by reading what you wrote. Good luck and please let us know what happens.
     
  11. MsEspresso

    MsEspresso New Member

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    Wait a minute . . . you are married. You have kids. FIRST, you need to talk to your wife about your problems. You guys need to try to work on your relationship before you go trying to start a new one. Starting a relationship with someone else involves MANY more people than just yourself. Please consider your family before jumping the gun here.
     
  12. MsEspresso

    MsEspresso New Member

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    Okay, I just read down further and saw that you have already been to counseling. Man . . . it's your call. Either get a divorce or keep working on it, but I agree with Loveit- it doesn't seem wise to jump straight into a new relationship.
     
  13. LPjammin

    LPjammin New Member

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    Hold up...


    ...I wonder if his unrequited love for chickie friend came up in counseling. Know what I'm saying? I mean, it's one thing to talk about repainting the house, so to speak, and quite another to expect good results if you haven't even scraped off the old coat, again, so to speak. Cowboy Lover is willing to take his story at face value but I say, BS. I read a guy who is making excuses for, if not actually cheating, then certainly, to me, not being what I would call loyal to the cause. How would you feel if every time you and your hubby went to counseling Ms. Grass is Greener didn't even come up?

    Maybe I'm being to harsh? I don't think so.
     
  14. cook74

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    I think you are being a bit harsh LP, almost everyone sees thing mainly from their side so it's not his fault if his long post may seem one sided, it's just human nature.

    Also the guy came on to the site for serious advice, not to be browbeaten into staying with his wife, or admitting he is the one to blame for everything going wrong.

    Poor guy is troubled enough, he might not need people laying some heavy shit on him about responsibilities that he probably has already taken into account.

    I'd agree with Loveit's post and suggest a slow transition.
     
  15. Thorn

    Gold Member

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    But he did come on here asking for our advise/ opinions, and thoughts concerning his dilemma and that's what he got. It's his responsibility now to consider the opinions posted and think them through and decide if any of our posts are worth acting on or to say, "To hell with these :sf folks," I'll look elsewhere for help. I think most all of the post are thoughtful and of course, differ from poster to poster.
     
  16. LPjammin

    LPjammin New Member

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    Right...

    ...but that's what counseling is for, to help you see and understand. Lord knows I am a master at seeing things my way! :lol

    I'm not saying all of it is his fault. I do not mean to suggest she is the perfect angel and it's all his fault, but, his role, what he's shared with us, I question how one can make their marriage better and stronger given that so much of his emotions and feelings go to a third party.

    As far as troubled, that's what I am seizing on; it seems to me what he'd really like is to make his marriage work but he's losing or lost hope.

    Sometimes a metaphorical foot in the azz can refocus the mind on the task at hand. He has nothing to lose by trying harder, trying better. He can always leave but maybe leave with a clear conscience if he really has to. In the mean time he needs to, in my opinion, quit day dreaming about his 'soul' mate.

    And, if it is time, he can just take what I say and consider it or reject as he sees fit. Nothing personal. I'm just I's and O's in cyberspace.

    Anyway, thanks for your points. It helps me round out my thoughts. :D
     
  17. LPjammin

    LPjammin New Member

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    Yup...

    ...TYVM.

    :D
     
  18. cook74

    Gold Member

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    Damn! LP, should have said that in the first place. I take it back :eek:

    It just seemed like a trashing at first, but I see what you mean now :)
     
  19. Rose

    Rose Resident Sexy Grandma
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    It is something to be considered: Has this 'soul-mate' friendship come up in your counseling? If not, you can't align yourself with giving "100%" since you are holding something back. Counseling won't work unless you are totally honest.

    You have some hard choices to make. You have some deep introspections with which to deal.

    Advice? If you are serious about saving your marriage, you will need to pull away from this other woman who is getting your emotional love. I'm sure it will be hard, but it is counter-productive to what you say you want. You cannot better your marriage relationship, while giving your 'best' to another woman. But like I said, you have some hard choices to make.
     
  20. LPjammin

    LPjammin New Member

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    No...

    ...it was trashing. I'm just trying to get away with it.



    J/K! :lol