Prostitution. Or: Am I a criminal?

Discussion in 'General Sex Discussion' started by Trond, Mar 14, 2009.

  1. Trond

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    Hi there boys and girls!
    I am relatively normal guy, originally from Norway, with a number of slightly 'nerdy' interests (science, biology, ancient history, art, music etc). But like most guys I am very fond of women. Apart from a few old pals of mine (who I have known since childhood) I tend to prefer women as friends, although I have to admit that they can be a bit mysterious.

    However, in my late teens and early twenties I had serious problems trying to find a girlfriend. Part of the problem was my general shyness, which has thankfully gotten slightly better with the years. Also, I have always looked a few years younger than I actually am, but tended to fall in love with women who were a couple of years older than me. Combine this with the fact that women seem to prefer slightly older guys, and you get the picture. I am not a bad-looking guy though.

    When I was 24 years old (!) I decided that enough is enough. I had hardly ever been touched by a girl, and I decided that if I couldn't have romance, at the very least a nice prostitute could take care of my sexual needs. So I made some phone calls, and decided to go with the most professional woman I could find. I found an ad with a girl emphasizing cleanliness and discretion, which was just my thing. I brought a box of chocolate to 'break the ice' a little. She was charming, nice, professional, and very expensive, but I was happy with the deal. Afterwards, she gave me a hug and asked me to come again, which I did (surprise, surprise).

    I am happily married now, but the reason I write about this is that prostitution has recently been made illegal in Norway (and Sweden). In fact, buying sex is illegal, but selling it is not. The reason for this is that the prostitutes are seen as the victims. The law explicitly says that men buying sex are criminals doing violence to women. Although I don't go to prostitutes anymore, I found this extremely offensive. I see what they are trying to say: sometimes women ARE forced to do this kind of thing against their will, but I think the law is wrongly phrased and that it also criminalizes people who never meant to harm anyone. Also: some prostitutes are actually proud of what they are doing. Any thoughts on this? (sorry for the long message)
     
  2. Dreama

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    I think that that is a very skewed law. If it's illegal, it should be illegal all around for everyone.
     
  3. cbrmale

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    I have had sex with prostitutes in the past, and like you I found them to be charming and well-balanced women. It is a job, of course, and the the invitation to come again is to make a client a regular. World-wide until the late eighteenth century, prostitution was legal, and the illegality of selling sex began in Britain in the 1880s, and moved to America and other parts of the world. In Australia it proved impossible to enforce such a law, and the girls were obviously willing to be in the sex industry, so the police turned a blind eye to it. In a pragmatic move, prostitution was decriminalised in the early 1980s, and subject to regulation as to who can work, where they can work, and in regard to safe sex practices. This is the situation today.

    I did some consulting work for some escorts in my city, so I formed a relationship beyond being a client. In their private lives they were rather similar to what you would have experienced as a customer in that they got on well with people and they sort-of oozed a sex appeal that was undeniable. Clearly they were not adversely affected by what they did, other than it's a job that makes it hard to form and keep private relationships. If you have seen it, the television series Secret Life of a Call Girl is eerily close to reality, both the professional and private sides. A remarkable show.

    In Australia there has been some issues in regard to Asian women paying large sums of money to get student visas in order to come to Australia for extended periods of time, and work in the sex industry while taking almost bogus language classes. The large sums of money pad are redeemed through working. It's my understanding that while the girls are being taken advantage of, they are willing to work in the sex industry under these conditions, and even allowing for the money paid they are earning much more than they would earn in the sex industry at home. While it's almost falls into a grey area between sex slavery and not, the Eros representatives I got to know regarded it as being legitimate, as do the regulators, as long as they stay within the requirements of their student visa.

    Generally speaking radical feminists have the greatest objection to the sex industry, and this is where the Scandinavian laws have come from. Male politicians are generally more tolerant, and in my city (the capital city of Australia), when parliament is sitting the sex workers have their busiest time. Lots of men away from home, lonely and desiring company (and sex). I suspect that if some of the feminists who pushed for these laws met the girls I met, they may reconsider their positions on the sex industry. If not, then I suspect the Scandinavian laws, if they have any success at at all, will merely push working ladies into countries where they can work without harassment, and there's plenty of those in Europe.
     
  4. Trond

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    Many thanks for the response.
    You are right about the feminist movement in Scandinavia. My impression is that it is particularly strong (and radical) in Sweden, where this law was passed first, and then Norway (where things used to be a bit more relaxed) just followed 'big brother' Sweden. It was also because of a great influx of prostitutes from Africa, some of whom were doing their trade in a too open and almost aggressive way. As I am married, and no longer live in Norway, it really did not matter to me until I saw the way the law was pushed through by painting a dark picture of abusive men preying on women. I was one of those men a few years back, and I certainly never wished to harm anyone. I think that some women mentally put themselves into the situation of the prostitutes and think something to the effect of "I could never do that, so someone must be forcing them to do it". They seem to be ignoring the fact that not all women have the same view of sexuality as they do. It would be interesting to hear what the women of this forum think about this.
     
  5. Dreama

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    The image painted by people pushing a certain agenda are often skewed, especially in issues such as this. I don't agree with this law, especially with the lopsidedness of it. But the US has its share of laws like this.
     
  6. cbrmale

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    While it's certain that almost all prostitutes are in it for the money, and the money can be very good, there is another side of sex work that I observed, and that is the interaction with their clients beyond sex. Or at least for the medium to high-end sex workers, where there is a total package involved. This is where the stereotype of the abused prostitute is a rather simplistic, I feel. The other side is the astute business woman hiring an IT consultant to develop a website and the like, which is how I got involved.

    There isn't a half-decent prostitute who doesn't put a lot of effort into satisfying her client. I observed their pride in giving a man a special time beyond sex, and the escorts I did consulting work for had a majority of married men as their clients. Indeed, one of them generally turned away younger men, giving the line she was booked out.

    So these escorts were giving something beyond what these men received at home.

    The other side I observed as a client was that sometimes the prostitute or escort receives satisfaction from the sex as well. This doesn't take away the fact that they're in it for the money, but there were times when I was left wondering what was going on. Being a curious person I would have loved to find out more, but to do so would have been terribly inpolite.
     
  7. Puss_in_boots

    Puss_in_boots Adminatrix
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    First of all, välkommen! The Feminist Movement certainly does have the government by the balls here in Sweden, doesn't it? The pendulum has swung a little too far the other way, and now it's the men who are having their rights infringed upon. It's not only unfair, but completely ridiculous that women can sell sex if they choose to do so but men can't take advantage of their services if they choose to do so. That's victimizing one half of the transaction and criminalizing the other. This was probably some radical feminist's idea of a compromise. I'm sure that the prostitutes don't particularly appreciate this law because they don't like being automatically considered "victims," and they don't like how their customers are going to be less willing to visit them now that they are considered "criminals."

    I say they should make the whole transaction legal and regulate it, or make the whole damn thing illegal. There is no option for compromise here.

    Also, in the words of the late, great, George Carlin, how come it's illegal to buy something that you can legally give away for free?
     
  8. fantasien

    fantasien New Member

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    Exactly! I feel that by taking things from only my perspective and e fir ing it onto others is completely wrong. Because what one person see's the other person is completely different. That's what I feel about the feminist movement.

    In consideration if my position being involved in a GLBT organisation, I come to see that I appreciate the diversness of others and generally see the humanity. But I find that when others can't discuss and share their viewpoints and opinions in an open forum and neutral mind set, then we can't successfuly function as a civilized global society.
     
  9. cbrmale

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    Prostitution, like gambling and drugs, is a victimless crime. In all three instances, arbitrary limits are attempted to be set on human behaviour, and all three are doomed to failure. I live in a country where prostitution and gambling is legal almost everywhere, and the war on drugs is failing.

    It is almost impossible to regulate human behaviour, when logically the women and men involved see nothing more or less than what it is: money paid for some sex. The prostitute could easily go out on the town and have a one-night-stand for free and be no worse off. Ditto the client.
     
  10. Trond

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    Thanks for your replies!
    To a certain degree, I think some of the customers are partially to blame for this though. In my opinion, it does not take much effort to see the difference between a woman who freely sells sex, and one in serious trouble. If men were better at discerning the difference, it would have been less of a problem (which may be a good reason to regulate it). On the other hand, some feminists (and some religious fanatics) would probably still object, no matter what. When it comes to the kind of feminist who attacked and cut up Velazquez' painting of Venus because she did not like the way men looked at it, I have very little sympathy. Whether or not the woman in the painting was a prostitute, she was beautiful. Of course people were looking. Welcome to planet Earth.
     
  11. cbrmale

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    Regulation is a better option, I feel. The majority of prostitutes here seem to be okay, but I know of some women in our legalised industry who are in a bad way. My observation from the Eros side was these women are in a bad way becuase of drug addiction, and they sell sex to pay for their habit. So the drugs leads to prostitution, not the other way around, and if it wasn't prostitution (legal or otherwise), it would be stealing or some other crime.

    I have seen some of them and I cannot understand how they manage to get clients, but obviously they do.

    So for me, the solution would be to be to consider decriminalising certain drugs that are currently illegal. I think if we did this, we would avoid a whole raft of social problems.

    The other insidious side of prostitution is sex slavery, which happens. Australia's legalised industry has largely avoided sex slavery, although there have been a couple of cases over the last few years, mostly from illegal (non-regulated) brothels. Again I cannot understand why men would go to these seedy places where there are so many legal brothels available. But as far as I can tell sex slavery in Australia seems to be very uncommon, despite our close proximity to Asia.
     
  12. Rocket Queen

    Rocket Queen New Member

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    To answer the question, you are not a criminal.... When you visited a prostitute it was legal... now it isn't..... so unless you start going to one now, you are in the clear....

    It's a crazy law though.....

    Prostitution is legal here in Oz as long as the Prostitutes pay their taxes... as stated here http://sexwork.com/coalition/australia.html