Of sex and the age of consent.

Discussion in 'General Sex Discussion' started by Texas_Red, Mar 24, 2011.

  1. Texas_Red

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    I started to make a reply to this thread , but once it was done I realized it was not so much a reply, but a complete derail. So I make this thread.

    So without further adieu, here is my thoughts on "age of consent"

    Personally? I think the magic number of "18" we have here in the US is retarded. I will agree that trying to have a relationship with someone who is 18 or younger is just looking for trouble (I'd know, I made that mistake 10 years ago); honestly, I'd go as far as to say no less than mid 20's (obviously there can and will be exceptions *grins*). But for no strings consensual sex? As long as the girl/guy knows what they are getting into, nobody is getting hurt. It's just 2 people engaging in something we all know damn well is enjoyable. To me it becomes an issue when the older person resorts to force, manipulation, or drugs to meet such ends. None of those is true consent, IMO, and manipulation I think shows mental issues on the manipulators part. Those who manipulate also tend to have a kind of radar that allows them to pinpoint people who are likely to be more susceptible to said manipulations. I'd say manipulated "consent" is not true consent. It is "manufactured", for lack of a better word.

    Checking the age of consent website, you'll notice that Chile, Mexico, and Malta all have a confirmed age of sexual consent of 12. I'm sure plenty of the members here will immediately cringe and have all kinds of negative thoughts and reactions. To be honest, even I think that's quite young.

    But then one has to think: not that many centuries/lifetimes ago, people got married as young teens. Of course you can argue that then life expectancy was shorter, etc. but that doesn't really change much. If anything we know even more at a young age now than we did then. One could argue that we are much more capable now of handling all of that at a young age than they were then. Add to the fact that due to many things (depending on who you talk to t's the hormones/chemicals in our foods, or it's just plain better nutrition and quality of life) humans are maturing sexually at ever earlier ages.

    In most other places it seems ages closer to 16 are the norm, which I think is probably more realistic anyway. But in the end, it seems to be a matter of opinion based on upbringing. Most of us in the US will sneer and wrinkle our noses at the thought of some "dirty pedophile (don't even get me started on how often that word gets used incorrectly these days)" having sex with someone younger than 18. What makes us more right than any other country and their population? Does that mean the countries that have ages of consent at 12 or 13 or 14 are full of sick and disgusting sexual perverts? Do we really have that right to make such a distinction? If so, why? What makes our Federal rule of 18 (individual states have different ages of consent, most are 16 with some being 17, and less at 18. South Carolina has a consent age of 14) the correct one, especially in the face of most other countries in the world being more in line with state consent rules?
     
    #1 Texas_Red, Mar 24, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
  2. Trond

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    Have you noticed that many older songs have lyrics about young girls?

    "Girl, You'll Be a Woman Soon"
    "Christine Sixteen"
    "Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen" (no, it's not simply a birthday song)

    I don't think people were as paranoid about (or aware of?) pedophiles before.
    Right or wrong, I just thought I should mention it. I rarely find teenage girls very attractive, but I know at least some of them are more mature than they look.
     
  3. Untamed

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    Okay here's my view on this. Sometimes it's not only the older person doing the manipulating. Some young woman (under aged) that dress older to appear more mature to the older men and don't tend to let them know their age. That is a manipulation. They aren't thinking about the consequences they can cause for the male. Do we really have to ask for IDs on a one night stand? I mean come on.

    That said .. we have this age restriction for a reason. The government believes that people under the age of 16,17,18.. can't make important life decisions like this. Hormones are all over the place as a young teenager.. heart can jump from man to man in a second... crushes are everywhere. You don't really think about the "what ifs?". They're still a child.

    I firmly believe that it is good to have age limits for that sole reason.
     
  4. Texas_Red

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    Okay, I see I'll have to go ahead an clarify. Pedophile is a clinical term, with specific requirements that have to be met before anyone can be labeled that. Pedophiles can molest children, but not all pedophiles are child molesters. Pedophiles also do not prey on teenagers.

    The media and most people far too carelessly use the term pedophile. Yes, I am being anal-retentive, but I think it's necessary. In order for someone to clinically (and legally) be labeled a pedophile, they have to meet a number of the above listed criteria. It is a serious label, and it should rightfully be used with care.

    The problem I have is with how arbitrary it all really is. The government is not always right. And clearly different countries feel differently about where the boundaries lay. Who is right? Who is wrong? Frankly, I think that sex is sex. I do agree there should be a cut off point, but in all honesty I think 18 is too high, and based on state law (and the laws of many other countries), I'm not in the minority. I also think that being a parent actually hinders rational though at least a little with this. We're all about being more open about sex until it involves our kids. Suddenly it's 100% taboo and bad and such. A complete reversal of thought. Who are we fooling? Many of us had sex as kids. Why do we suddenly think as adults we'll somehow stop our kids from doing the same? And if it's just consensual sex, just as we had as kids, why does it matter the age of the person their doing it with, as long as it is safe and 100% consensual?

    Again, I am not advocating that sex with preteens is okay. I definitely agree that there is a need to look at things based on a readiness perspective. But no matter what, it's a slippery slope. Most kids aren't ready yet you say? I'm sure plenty of us have known twenty-somethings who weren't ready either. It really isn't and age thing. It is 100% a mentality thing. Really I think if you don't want your kids to have sex before they're ready, then make sure you're being a good parent, be up front, be honest, be informative (not saying anyone here isn't being a good parent, please put the pitchforks, tar and feathers down! :D ). We shouldn't need the government to tell us how to raise our kids, but sadly we're hurtling that way ever faster.
     
    #4 Texas_Red, Mar 25, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
  5. cheeze

    cheeze New Member

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    fuck that I wouldnt have a 18 year old. girls at that age still have alot of developing to do thats just asking for trouble.

    She'd have to show me that shes really really different from the typical 18 year old for me to even talk to her.
     
  6. AlexPrince

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    I've actually studied statutory rape laws in-depth in a lot of states. And it's a silly thing to do but I had to do it when I was a teenager, 16 and up because in most states, the laws differ radically.
    In Georgia, for example, age of consent is 16 but if you're sixteen and your partner is 14 and up, the punishment is negligible, considered a misdemeanor. So anyone 16 and up...but wait. When you turn 21, anyone under 18 is off-limits, and it's a felony to even touch them. And when you're 19, and they're under 18, it's a shady area.
    In other states, it's much the same. Different rules for people at the age of consent (usually 16 from what I've seen) and for people above (in some states, you can be 30 with a 16, legal but in others it's a felony, wtf, right?)

    BTW, age of consent for male gays, female gays, and straight couples are all different. In some states, lesbians = 14, gay men = 18, straight couples = 16. Weird, huh?


    I'm from Czech Republic, we have age of consent 15+, no tricks, no gimmicks. I think it'd be easier to have one single law, first of all, and not some page long explanation as to when it's okay and when it's not and what the hell it all means.
    Second, I think that anyone 12+ can be sexually involved (ie. genitally ready for it), but I don't think that should be the age of consent, it's not practical. When I was 12, i would have banged everything around me, but the thing is, the statutory rape laws (ie. age of consent) wards off old creepy guys hitting on 13 year old girls still playing with barbies.

    In the end, if sex is consensual, completely consensual age shouldn't matter. If you're 12 and you find a hot 30 year old guy, fuck what society thinks, go for it. If you're 14 and you want to have sex with a 12 year old, i don't think anything should stop you.

    For practical purposes, however, 14+ seems like a good age.
     
  7. AlexPrince

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    The actual term, from what I remember, is hebephile for sexual preference for early teens, ephebophile for late teens. (double checked with wikipedia, and that's it!)
     
  8. Texas_Red

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    Yeah, the Age of COnsent website covers that aspect as well. Seems dumb, but it's just another example of discrimination really.

    You would be correct. Though I do feel that's getting into splitting hairs, but that's just my opinion. As humans we seem to just have to find a way to neatly box and label everything.
     
  9. lbushwalker

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    Lots of discussion about legal age to reproduce (sex) but what about other even more hazardous activities like join the army and die for your country (some places still have involuntary conscription). Then there is the legal age for driving (or ? killing), flying or boating as skipper. Then there is the biggy; age of voting.
    Fortunately in Australia you get to vote and drink at 18, two years after you can officially have lost your cherry in a sober state.
    The reality is almost everyone here drinks & fuck earlier than legal but our jails are not filled with young people doing what young people have always done; push the boundaries!
     
  10. Everett_Spair

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    In Sweden its 15.
    However, this only applies if there is a police report. so if a 16 and a 14 year old have sex and they both want it then thats totally ok.
    However the 14 year old can report the 16 year old and that will be labeled as "sex med en minderĂ¥rig" english: "sex with a minor".
     
  11. DarkJewel

    DarkJewel New Member

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    I'll let ya know
    I'm not sure about this topic,because I'am a parent...so I'm sure my view point will vastly differ from most of the guys here.

    My daughter is 13,and I have twin 22 year old STEP daughters.The LAST thing in the world I would want for any of them is to be with some dude that's close to my age.
    I'm sorry,but if you are in your thirties and the only females you can get are under 18,then there MUST be a problem.

    Where I live,the age of consent is 16,and that is fine by me.But if a guy is over 18 he better stay the hell away from my daughter.
    I'm around teens all day long,and I will tell you this,THEY ARE NOT MATURE ENOUGH TO HANDLE IT.Most DEFINITELY can't handle getting pregnant or becoming a parent that young either.
    When I was 18 i could barely take care of myself,let alone anyone else.And yes,MOST teens are that way.
    Sex is not "just sex". When you are a teenage girl it means so much more.Most of them don't yet know the difference between sex and love.And for an older guy to prey on their lack of experience is just WRONG.

    My daughter is well educated about sex,and when she is ready I will get her on the pill and buy her condoms,whatever.But I hope she chooses to be with someone her own age or close to it (2-3 years older).

    Just so you all know,most girls really find older guys to be CREEPY.I remember being at the mall at 16,and there was always this one 30 year old dude trying to pick up on us and we thought he was a huge LOSER.
    Just listen to this song if you don't believe me...Smart girls will stay away from old men.YouTube - Kesha-Dinosaur+Lyrics & Download
     
  12. Texas_Red

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    Well, I can definitely see and agree about the 13 year old. But 22? They're capable of making up their own minds (not that I am trying to tell you how to parent). And for reference, what about our own ibushwalker? He's an older gent with a much younger SO.

    At the same time I'm fairly certain plenty of teens are ready for it, and do just fine with it. Getting pregnant and such is definitely an issue, but that is something that good parenting and teaching can help a lot with. I can see your point about how some teen girls sex and love are mixed. But I'm pretty sure if we all step back and think back to our days as teens, we knew plenty of girls who had no issues with distinction, and knew precisely the difference. You can't just lump everyone in under the same presumption. Everyone is different. As for an older guy to prey on teens? Absolutely wrong, and I covered that. Manipulation is not true consent, and such people are definitely predators.

    I think that's wonderful really. Most parents don't want to hear/think/know anything about sex about their kids until they're married, and that's a problem. Open communication and education is the best policy (IMO).

    I don't doubt this, but I also think it would depend on the older guy. Most well adjusted people can detect a loser from a mile away. They just have that aura. That guy that tried to pick up on you and your friends was broadcasting such an aura more than likely.
     
    #12 Texas_Red, Mar 25, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
  13. DarkJewel

    DarkJewel New Member

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    I'll let ya know
    My husband is 6 years older then me...I met him when I was 19 and he was 25.At that point it was fine for me.Had we hooked up when I was 12 and he was 18,that would have been a problem as I was still playing with barbies.I may have consented to it,but I'd have had no idea of what I was really consenting to because I was too immature.

    One of my stepdaughters is still a virgin at 22,has never had a boyfriend.It may seem old enough,but her mind is still very young.The other one does have a boyfriend a few years older.Any older and I think my husband may have a big problem with it.

    Thank you,the reason I have been so diligent is because I want to avoid a teen pregnancy at all costs.Parents who don't educate will more then likely be early grandparents.
    I think it is also an issue because a girl under 18 cannot legally get an abortion on her own if she gets pregnant without her parent's permission.
    Whether or not people agree with abortion,most would agree a teen is a baby having a baby,and not a good thing.

    Determining who is well adjusted enough to make a sound decision is kinda the problem though.How do you say which ones are of sound mind? Truly few teenagers are.
    I have read that a teenager's brain chemistry is that of a crazy person's.They are mature on the outside,but their brains are not fully cooked so to speak.
     
  14. Trond

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    Well, that wasn't exactly my point. What I am saying is that old songs show how older guys going for younger girls was seen as more OK before. The pedophile scare was just my best guess as to what put an end to it. Not that I expect people to know the clinical definition. I sure did not know.

    By the way, most of the people caught on the show " Dateline - To Catch a Predator" would not be pedophiles then (although I think they used that term)
     
  15. backcheck64

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    Age of consent in Missouri is 17. BUT if you're married, and with parental permission, you can marry at the age of 15, it's legal. (song "Dueling Banjos" playing).

    I remember back in college, this girl was haning on me, I was alredy dating my wife so I just got annoyed, but I later found out, she apparently wasn't carded, and she did look in her 20s, turned out she was 16. Yes, girls need to be held accountable in cases like that where they decieve older guys into sleeping with them. I didn't so my wife saved me LOL, if I hadn't been dating my wife at the time, I probably would have nailed her.

    Everyone mistakes my daughter for 17 to 20 yrs old, yes she developed early....she's actually 12.
     
  16. need4more

    need4more New Member

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    I can sort of agree with ages, but really think it depends on the individual. There are some teens that are more mature than others that are able to handle sex and the feelings that come with it. It is a rollercoaster of emotions. But then again there are some that are not mature enough. Would I want to know or see or hear about a 12 year old having sex? NO! I see anywhere from 10 to 13 as caught inbetween becoming an adult and wanting to savor childhood.

    Having one in middle school and one on their own, it was my job as a parent to educate them on sex and even now it hasn't stopped. Today, std's and such are more talked about than when I was young (I probably didn't even realize there was such a thing). I wanted them to know what can happen, what they can do to prevent it, and how to be responsible for themselves and future partners. How and where birthcontrol is available, and if they need my consent for it, I will be there. I also told them in no uncertain terms that NO means NO, no matter what age. Both have been taught (this was from really early on) "You don't have to like everyone, but you do have to respect them"

    As one said most of us where having sex atleast in highschool. I was with a much older guy but would have never considered it rape. I have never told my kids to not have sex in hs, because that would make me a hypocrite. I did. I have only been with two and am still with the second. I was also pregnant before I got married. So did my mother and my mother in law. That may not have happened if I had been educated. So instead I'm open and honest with them and let them know what is out there, what is available and that I'm always here to talk. I've even told them both that I think they should live with their dream guy or girl before they ever think about marriage. I do worry about them and all the 'creepies' out there, but know I continue to do my best to educate them and be open.

    Age of consent should be more about maturity, and education.
     
  17. Chronichaze

    Chronichaze New Member

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    That's fucked up those latin countries have such a low age of consent. I mean 12, damn, thats a little girl who hasn't physically filled out at all. It's horrible that in latin America women are treated so poorly. Not only do they create legislation leaving young women vulnerable, they also have much higher rates of domestic abuse. Really is a shame because their women are socialized to be pretty traditional and it goes without saying that the women are stunning beauties.

    As for consent in America, I believe around 18 is fine. Most girls at that age have been sexually active and it's ultimately up to an adult to make their own decisions. I think any girl still in high school is just too young. You've all been there before so you know that they are very immature and naive at that age. It would be so easy to bang out high school girls. Easy, yes, morally just, no.
     
  18. Untamed

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    LOL that is not the kind of attitude a young 12 year old should have.

    Society will put that guy away and when he gets out he'll be on probation for so long it's not funny.

    I think what the government should do.. rather than lowering "age of consent" is teach students/young teens what the consequences are if they do have sex with an older man. Not just for them.. but for the male they are wanting to have sex with. Jail time.. probabtion... and so on. All the young teen is thinking.. "oh I'm so in love......" .. "he's so ruggedly handsome" ..

    In New Zealand it is - 16 years old. I think that is what it should be everywhere.. yes 18 is too high. But I am guessing it's that age more for the "making babies" reason.

    When I was younger 14 onwards.. I wanted to know what sex was and how it felt.. was I ready for it? not really. Was I smart about it? not at all..

    Unprotected sex with my first boyfriend at 16 .. never used protection with him.. him "what if you get pregnant" .. young me replies "I don't mind, do you want to be a Dad someday?" ... 18 year old partner "What would we name her .. him?" ............... schools really need to educate young teens on this .. they barely touched on the subject when I was in high school.

    As for being a parent.. if my boys decide they want to go out and have sex .. under 16.... I'll have a talk to them about consequences. They have too bright a future to be pushing around babies at 16 years old.
     
  19. Texas_Red

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    Yeah, that Dateline show and the guy is typical sensationalist "journalism." I realize I may come off a bit prickish and maybe even arrogant when I say this, but I really do feel that if people are going to use words, they really should know what they mean and what the appropriate usage for them is. I think it is more than fair to expect people to know things like that. Judgements carry weight, and if you don't know what that weight feels like, it isn't exactly fair to just heap them on others. (deja vu, was just talking about this idea with someone in regard to a different subject not too long ago...)

    What about 17 and 23? I ask because that is precisely when my first ex and I got together. We actually met when she was 16, but she had a boyfriend, and I minded my manners. I actually tried to help her patch things up with him. We got engaged when she was 19, but it wasn't much later that her inability to be faithful came out, and that ended pretty quick. Lesson learned on my part.

    This somewhat proves my point that even beyond the "age of consent" one isn't always ready, which kind of makes arbitrary age limit laws pointless (IMO).

    Definitely good points, though doesn't Planned Parenthood have the ability to sidestep these things, or is it a state by state law thing? Either way, teen preganacy and teen mothers are definitely not something to look toward.

    I do agree but then again, I still fall back that I think it needs to be the parent who is left to properly instruct and instill the knowledge and wisdom to make the right choice, not the government. The more jurisdiction we give the govt, the less freedoms we all have. As is I feel too many "parents" want to see all the mantle of parenthood passed to the govt so they can continue partying or whatever. Very irresponsible.

    Yeah, when I was 13/14 we had a girl that lived in my apartment complex, she was only 12, but she was sporting C cups and full bush (yeah, we all tried to get a look up her skirt/shorts when we could). We all wanted a piece. Every so often I've seen articles on the trend towards girls maturing younger and younger, with some oddities like 9 year olds getting breasts and such. I imagine at that age breasts or not it should be obvious that you'd be barking up the wrong tree for sure, but I totally understand what you're saying otherwise. People are quick to condemn, but I'm sure plenty of guys have had their lives ruined by "sex offender" convictions over the oft joked "she told me she was $ageof18orhigher!" sadly being true. One cannot be too careful anymore. But I would imagine it's not really that common, despite this.
     
  20. Chronichaze

    Chronichaze New Member

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    Brought up a valid point a bit above^. There are a lot of consequences for a young female to face when having sex with an older partner. Not only is the older partner going to have leverage with manipulation, they'll also be more likely to abstain from practicing safe sex. 1, they've been more sexually active for a longer duration leaving them more susceptible to STDs. 2, I think it would be a lot more likely to have an older man have sex unprotected.

    I know for me personally used to be super cautious when having sex. I was so afraid of STDs and getting my girlfriend pregnant that I almost always used a condom. Even when she was using birth control. In later years I was like fuck it, I know this girl pretty well, I'll just go without it. Never had a STD praise be to god haha but I have had way more unprotected sex in later years. Maybe it's because I don't get with easy sluts or maybe it's because I haven't got enough pussy haha:eyes