My thoughts on what we should learn from what happened

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by ninja08hippie, Dec 19, 2012.

  1. ninja08hippie

    ninja08hippie Official SF Hugger
    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,089
    Likes Received:
    36
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Strawberry Fields
    Has anyone else seen their Facebook feeds light up with gun control arguments over the last few days?

    I'm disappointed in America. I'll get to guns, but I'm upset that health care and public education isn't brought up. He didn't wake up one morning and decide to kill those children. Something that fucked up takes years to boil up. In the USA, most health care costs about $100 per hour, and most health care, doesn't cover it, so even the middle class doesn't get real access to it. Health Care has to incorporate all types of health, not just physical. Purely capitalist health care has lead to a class division between people who is covered by insurance and those not.

    The public schools are supposed to teach our kids, but also care for them. I'll bet this kid had serious problems in school too. Inner city schools, are really just prisons to keep the kids off the street for a few hours of the day to protect them from what's outside waiting for them when they get older.

    We have a finite amount of money and now the country is more or less broke. We can't afford to keep the military machine anymore, but we also can't afford to lose the health care system. We should cut our military back and have the other UN countries beef up theres to help control the bad parts of the world. If we back ours down, they have to increase theres. I fear with a likely arms race building up with China will subvert this. At least this time it's a friendlier race.

    Now to guns. Seriously? Do you really need military hardware? Do these people think that these gun laws really take away their handguns and hunting rifles? No discussion of that has happened. The liberals just want more control over who has one. You need to be licensed and trained (drivers ed) to drive a car, why not to use a gun. Conservatives say that they want guns to make it safer, well: imagine you are a hostage at a bank robbery, and one of the other hostages pulls a gun out of her purse. She really doesn't know how to use it, basically analogous to someone having to drive without ever done it before. That just made the situation a whole lot more dangerous for you. Wouldn't it have been nicer to know that the 25 year old blonde never got a license to a gun, even though she had the opportunity because she decided against it? Or maybe she does have the gun, this time, she's been trained how to use it. She's not Rambo, but she is aware of here abilities and limitations, she's driving with a driver's license. So military guns to military people only... you need a license to buy a tank right? And training and licensing to those who want one.

    We shouldn't have let these kids deaths lead to a country wide argument, their lives should be honored by fixing what lead us here. RIP
     
    #1 ninja08hippie, Dec 19, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  2. diehard

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    109
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Carolina
    What happened was a tragedy, but can we really blame guns? Evil, crazy people will find a way. From the Bath school bombing in the 20s to Oklahoma City, things can and will happen with or without guns.

    I have my concealed carry permit, and i do carry. Why? Because people are evil. My dad is retired sf, and i have taken gun safety and tactical classes. The guns used in Conn were stolen. Gun control wouldnt have stopped anything. Yes, he had an AR, but he used handguns from what i have read. You cant blame an inanimate object. We also cant ban everything that has a chancr of hurting us in the wrong hands.

    And then how do we designate which guns to ban? I have a 223 rifle i use for hunting. That's the caliber the "bad" guns are in. I chose the lightweight black stock, and have a couple of the 30 round clips. I use them for practice and fun. I like shooting. But to someone who doesnt know, the black stocked gun is an assault rifle. My point is where does it stop? Anything that could easily br converted to an assault rifle is banned?

    You cant fix crazy, without a gun they would find a way. Baseball bats are the #1 weapon used in assaults in NC where i am from. Should everyone be given a gun? No, but will bad guys find a way around any law? Yes, they dont go thru the legal processes anyway.

    Call me a redneck, conservative, or whatever, but I have my guns and intend to keep them. My Ruger has never walked itself out and shot someone.

    The tragedy though has happened, and we as a country did fail those kids. I can't imagine the horror they went through or being a parent that lost a child. So lets not make it political, especially on a sex forum. Each has an opinion, and they are like assholes
     
  3. Meee

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,198
    Likes Received:
    3,094
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Potomac, Maryland
    Ninja, read more about this particular case. Extensive counseling throughout his school years, a household income (through alimony) of $240,000, a suburban home worth over a million dollars. Issues like the cost of health care and the neglect of inner-city schools don't apply.
     
    #3 Meee, Dec 19, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  4. sandwich

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2012
    Messages:
    2,614
    Likes Received:
    2,411
    Gender:
    Female
    This whole thing will not be resolved any time soon. With that in mind, I got to thinking, "what can I do?". So last weekend I spent a lot of extra time with my brother's kids. It was of utmost importance that they know how much I love them. And I decided that I wanted to do more to help kids. There is already one thing I do a couple of times a month, but I am sure there is something else out there that I can do on a volunteer basis. I want the children of the world to feel safe, and just doing one new thing will make me feel less helpless in this fucked up world.
     
  5. Texas_Red

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,313
    Likes Received:
    14
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Welcome to Capitalism 101: Everything must slowly increase in cost and everyone must slowly make more, because someone says so!

    Not that may of us go to "inner city" schools. It's not the New York ghettos everywhere. Public schools in wealthy areas do better, public schools in poorer areas do worse. Schools in general are underfunded, and mismanaged all to hell and back. School is not day care. School is not training the next generation of low income earners. School is supposed to educate you, teach you, allow you to become a free thinking individual. It's not used for that anymore.

    Continued pork barrel spending on the .mil, continued tax cuts for the rich, etc. is a huge part of why we're in trouble. Not to mention we're by and far a consumer nation. We export very little. That is damaging to an economy. We bleed cash.

    The second amendment was put in place to allow us to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government. Sadly we the people are fucking stupid, and we allowed the slippery slope of conditions on who can own a gun and why. the 2nd amendment doesn't allow for such limits, same as the 1st doesn't allow limits on speech. With all these freedoms you take the good with the bad. Gun control is not the answer, and never has. We keep adding more and more restrictions, and people keep getting blown the fuck away once in awhile by some broken individual. Wake the fuck up. It doesn't work.

    IMO, what needs to happen is everyone needs to be raised around guns. Proper care and handling of guns needs to be taught early, and often. Everyone should need to meet a minimum level of proficiency with one. You don't have to own or carry, but you'd damn well better know how to operate one safely should the need arise. Were it like this, people wouldn't be afraid of guns magically jumping up and killing people. People wouldn't be so afraid of the "what ifs" of others pulling a gun.
     
  6. mrcock

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    the attacker is the victim in the first place
     
  7. Hot Wheels

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    3,415
    Likes Received:
    37
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sydney,Australia
    Even if the other framers of the constitution believed Americans had a right to carry weapons to defend their homes, they were basing their decision on
    18th century circumstances and 18th century mindset.
    Constitutions are not written in stone. Laws change with the times and reflect current values and customs. Otherwise, there would still be public hangings in the U.S. and Canada, slavery would exist, schools in the American South would still be segregated, women would not be able to vote -- the list is endless.

    Instead of defending their contentious positions for or against gun control based on their interpretation of a 27-word clause penned in 1789, Americans would be better served if the Supreme Court examined the current tragic abuse resulting from an untenable access to weapons -- irrespective of the lame NRA argument that "it's not guns that kill people, but people who kill people" -- and ruled accordingly with wisdom and common sense.

    The real problem in the United States has nothing to do with constitutional rights and everything to do with a gun culture -- which, on average, takes the lives of more than 30,000 Americans a year -- that is out of control.

    Allan Levine is a Winnipeg author and historian.

    In this quote.....the word äccess" is the key.....
    I wouldnt want to see guns banned at all.....thousands of enthusiasts use them legitimately and Ive got no problem with that at all.....but access should be restricted to those who dont have genuine reasons for their use?
    The constitution was drafted when the worst thing you could have faced was a single shot flintlock rifle or a musket.....they had no idea back then about automatic military hardware that could empty a multi round magazine in a matter of seconds.....or the potential damage it could do in the wrong hands...
    As has been said above....times change......and I feel that current culture should change with it.
     
    #7 Hot Wheels, Dec 20, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012
  8. Hot Wheels

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    3,415
    Likes Received:
    37
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sydney,Australia
    One word of warning guys...
    While this is primarily a sexual discussion forum, anything else may be discussed by you, the members and thats ok....
    However, due to this topic having the potential to stir passions and beliefs from those with differing views on this subject......
    If it gets personal or becomes abusive......it will be closed ok:ugh

    back on topic......:)
     
  9. mrcock

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    I absolutely disagree with dr. drew, who said that he killed all the people cause he felt special, absolutely cynical bullshit
     
  10. lbushwalker

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Messages:
    6,965
    Likes Received:
    5,078
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    'Stralia Mate!
    HW, you said it way better than I ever could and I am a responsible Australian gun owner.
    We double lock our wares in gun safes when not in use, only allowed repeater models for target practice, vermin control or challenging sports shooting.
    Nobody needs guns that fire zillions per second round just for fun.
    We are an outdoors society but not one that cuts down everything in a hail of lead!
    America for heaven sake wake up!
     
  11. Mittimer

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    7,517
    Likes Received:
    4,447
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Fl
    Excuse me? What makes someone who took 27 lives, not including his, a victim?
     
  12. mrcock

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    not at this episode though, but he is a victim of previous abuses, I am sure, though don't know the facts
     
  13. Mittimer

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    7,517
    Likes Received:
    4,447
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Fl
    I highly advise looking up facts before making statements like that. I more then assure you, it will not go over well.
     
  14. mrcock

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    just tell me, you don't have to though, but if you'd like to then, what would you do if you'd just understand that you can't go further? if you just can't find the place to stop? if the negative, the pressure is too strong for you to handle? can you just imagine that?
     
  15. moneyshotbal

    moneyshotbal New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    22miles from shore
    Do us all a favor and close it. I want to comment on this but this definitely isn't the place...
     
  16. SWOJLO

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    back in the woods
    WTF? You make no sense when you post shit like this. Find a point, organize your thoughts and present your opinion. It's simple.
     
  17. mrcock

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    that was a question, not opinion

    when pressure is too strong some people just can't handle it. not everyone go kill everyone though. some just become alcoholics, some try harder drugs then usual. thing is people are usually not go kill everyone cause this usual decisions are influenced on a usual experience
     
  18. 12barblues

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    5,297
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    california, USA
    Mrcock, I think I understand what it is that you're trying to say. But you need to do a better job of communicating your thoughts. Especially when it's about a sensitive topic like this one.
     
  19. Mittimer

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    7,517
    Likes Received:
    4,447
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Fl
    Only Ninja can request it closed. You're welcome to your opinion just keep it civil.
     
  20. backcheck64

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    3,433
    Likes Received:
    1,040
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Missouri
    First off, mental illness isn't abuse, it's a condition. What sane person has guns in the home of an extremely disturbed person. He'd had several mental issues for most if not all of his life. He didn't steal the guns, they were purchased by his mother, but kept in the home in which he resided, and he used the guns. And gun control seems to work quite well in every other industrialized country. No one needs a 30 shot clip to hunt. Thank your repbulicans for the lack of mental health available. They've cut and cut and cut the budget on mental health AND education. The US is falling further and further behind in education and taking care of our mentally ill. BUT WE"VE GOT AR15s out the ass. Because of the latitude given to this ill person and lack of proper storage of weapons, my kid's schools are on semi lockdown and recieving threats daily....and I live in an upper middle class town, very white collar and for the most part...white.