Infedelity/Insecurity

Discussion in 'Sex and Relationships' started by mindcandy, Oct 6, 2008.

  1. mindcandy

    mindcandy New Member

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    I'm a very passive person, and there have been times in my relationship where I have been suspicious about my girlfriend cheating on me, but when I asked she assured me that she wasn't. The reasons she gave me turned out to be lies, and now a new situation is causing me to have doubts.

    Without a direct confrontational question (that only leads to lies and excuses) how can I get her to truly admit whether or not she is cheating on me?

    I love her so much and I want to stay with her. she could have lied for a number or reasons...so I have the benefit of the doubt. Again, I don't even know that she cheated yet but I just know she lied. how can I passively get her to tell me the truth?

    I am an extremely jealous and insecure person, and I feel like its causing problems and hurting the people I love the most.

    I haven't had a serious enough relationship for infidelity to be an issue, so I've never been put in this situation before. What measures can I take to combat these distracting feelings?
     
  2. wawoo

    wawoo New Member

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    my friend, the most fragile part of love between lovers, is trust. You should not assume anything before you push your relationship into a dead end. If you really worried about this relationship, then talk to your gf honestly about it, but be careful how you address it. Try not to use word "insecure", or mention what happened in the past.
     
  3. igor

    Gold Member

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    I guess I need enlightenment here. Back when I was single, a girlfriend did not mean any exclusive attachment with any one person. So if I had a "girlfriend" it did not mean she couldn't see anyone else (and vice-versa). However if we were "going steady", that was something else entirely. Has this changed or is it still the same?
     
  4. Dreama

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    In my experience, going out has meant the same thing as 'going steady'. A lot of times, I hear that people are 'talking' to someone they're interested in, but not yet dating exclusively. That's just the word in the world of KY teenagers and young adults.
     
  5. ccjcool

    ccjcool New Member

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    Agreed. In my experience if you were bf/gf that was the same as "going steady". That likely has changed from what it used to be. I think part of that is because (at least in my observation/experience) the notion of dating several people non-exclusively has become a bit taboo to many around my generation. Those that do are seen as "players" or "sluts" in many circles, due to the stigma of sex being a "normal part of a relationship" now, even if sex isn't occuring.
     
  6. BassDude

    BassDude New Member

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    You can't be totally passive in a relationship. From your post, I can't get a feel for whether you have any concrete evidence that should be cause for concern, or whether you are letting your insecurities or just imagination run away with you.

    The thing you have to do in a relationship with anyone is communicate. Communicate with her about what's going on if anything. (And if you can't communicate with her, then you don't need her anyway...cut your losses because you'll never make it long term.) Make sure she knows you'd rather have the truth. Make sure she know's that you won't punish her for being honest. But also don't "punish" her for something she's not doing through repeated accusations...that takes away the motivation to not do something you're already being punished for. I'd say confront her with the lie, but don't punish her for lying...ask her for the truth.

    BD
     
  7. FlirtyChick

    Gold Member

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    Jealousy will kill your relationship. Just talk to her, find out where she stands with you and move from there. Clue: If she lied to you, she is not trustworthy. Give her a chance to explain. Quite honestly is it is going like this from the start it is probably not a good indicator of a healthy relationship to start with. I know for me, queen of insecurities, it always stings a little to find out that someone who have been intimate with and care about has the hots for someone else, or flirts with another person in your face, but to do something and lie about it...I say next. I know you love her, but you are young. Don't you deserve better than someone whom you cannot trust?
     
  8. BassDude

    BassDude New Member

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    Dude...you are quite young. I'd assume your GF is too. Just a thought...at this age, people don't tend to know what they really want, and I'm not convinced even really know what "love" actually is. There's quite a bit of fucking other people that goes on at that age with many folks...so, if that happens to be the case, don't get too hurt by it because it's nature running it's course...just find yourself another lover too, and carry on the way you are until something changes. Keep your laid-back attitude and make the most of your youth. Take it from someone who wishes they had been just a little ruthless in some of their life.

    BD
     
  9. mindcandy

    mindcandy New Member

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    The thing is, she's probably the most trustworthy person I know, and I've never really caught her in any big lies before. Usually the communication issue arises when she leaves something out, "forgets" to mention something, or decides not to bring something up.

    I have talked to her, she reassured some things that I was concerned about and removed some of my doubts by explaining more to me. She says she's just as jealous and insecure as I am and she keeps telling me that she isn't out of my league and couldn't or wouldn't try to find someone better than me.

    I still don't know where the lines are, though. I mean, to the best of my knowledge this is entirely exclusive, she says she loves me as much as I love her, etc.
    I'm not sure if its unreasonable to not want her to be flirty, cuddle with, or be intimate in any other way to other guys, and even though this hasn't been an issue these are just examples of how much I want to be the only guy in her life.
     
  10. BassDude

    BassDude New Member

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    OK, you both sound like your hearts are in the right places. Let me tell you what I think, you may or may not agree with me.

    IMO, jealousy (and the insecurities that cause it) are not good things. Jealousy is fear of losing someone, true? Well guess what, if someone is going to up and leave you for someone else, they are going to do it regardless of whether you feel jealous about it or not. What I'm saying is that jealousy doesn't stop someone from leaving you...in some cases, it actually makes it more likely. Read on.

    Think about this...jealousy enslaves you AND your partner (IF you have a sensitive partner, which it sounds like you do...if you don't, you probably don't need them anyway). Now, would you rather someone be with you because you have chained them to you, or would you rather them be with you because they CHOOSE to be? (That's what I thought.) If you shackle someone to you with jealousy (or any other emotional means of confinement) you never know if they WANT to be with you or they are just trapped. Can ya dig it? If you drop the shackles, set them free, AND they still stick around...guess what? They WANT to be with you. Wouldn't you rather know for sure that they actually want to be with you? And if someone doesn't want to be with you, do you really want them to stick around anyway?

    You have to consider also that most people don't like being confined and given all sorts of intricate rules to follow (some do, but very few in my opinion), so jealousy will often drive someone away who would be perfectly happy otherwise. Now it's perfectly OK to gently confront someone with something that just doesn't look or feel right. But, if you take it to the level of repeated accusations after the person has already said there's no wrongdoing, then you're taking away their motivation to NOT do it. If you're already punishing someone for something they are NOT doing, then they might as well go do it since they're already being punished for it, right?

    Anway, you can take this freedom to whatever level or extreme is comfortable for you two (and it'll probably get more comfortable to take it farther the older you get), but you really should consider taking it to some reasonable extent. For instance, my wife's a totally shameless flirt...before we were married, she made me feel jealous a few times, then I grew to accept that it's part of her personality (and that's not something I'd change), then I grew to actually encourage her to flirt. After all, if you flirt and someone flirts back, it makes you and the other person feel good. What's wrong with that? Nothing in my opinion. It's harmless unless your partner decides to act on it (and that's where trust and honesty come in.) If you love your partner in a way that is good for them, then you should want them to feel good about themselves, and vice versa. IMHO. Fairness is something that's important to me and to many people, so I expect my wife to at least allow me to flirt (she rarely has to encourage me :brow), and she does.

    Now, don't get me wrong...everyone feels jealousy to some extent, it's a normal human emotion that we all get. No one is perfectly insecurity-free. However, like any other human emotion, it's perfectly fine to FEEL it, but what you CHOOSE to DO with that emotion is what actually matters. If you trust that your partner loves you and wants you, then don't feel worried. It's OK to ask for reassurance (we all need to sometimes), but don't make offensive, accusing, etc. Help your partner grow as person, and ask her to help you grow as a person. Help each other drop your respective insecurities. Talk about everything, even actors or persons you know that you think are attractive. Guess what, no matter how much you and your partner truly love each other, each of you will always see plenty of other people that you think are attractive and even lust after. It happens to all humans whether they admit it or not. So, why not turn that into something fun and erotic for both of you...fantasize about the objects of lust together sometimes while you're in the act and give your partner a kinky thrill! It's harmless to fantasize about anything together...really it is.

    Talking about your innermost feelings, desires, etc., if done honestly and openly will create a lot of emotional intimacy for you two, and that is stronger and longer lasting than any feelings of lust for each other or anyone else, IMO. You have to make each other feel very comfortable that you won't punish the other for being open and honest, even if you might not particularly like what you're hearing. If you punish someone for being honest (by reacting badly, throwing a tantrum, accusing them of wrongdoing, making a big issue out of something small and normal, etc.) you demonstrate to them that they can't be honest with you without fear of repercussion. Guess what? They stop being open and honest with you.

    Long post I know, but think it all over and see if it makes sense.

    BD
     
  11. mindcandy

    mindcandy New Member

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    I completely understand what you're saying. I have no problem with her flirting with other people or leaving me for someone else, in fact I'd rather that than her stay with me and have other guys on the side or want to be with other guys.
    But like I said, I'm very passive, I haven't reacted negatively if she was open with me and never punished her for telling me the truth. I guess its something that will go away with time?
     
  12. BassDude

    BassDude New Member

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    Well, here's the thing...you are both two human beings. You are both going to meet other people that you want to lay, unless you lock one another away in closets somewhere. It's going to happen, there's no way around it. The question is not whether you want to or not, the question is what do you do about it? (More specifically, what do you and her AGREE to do about it?) Do you just let it pass without doing anything (what most people do), do you sneak around and cheat on her (what a significant percentage do), do you tell her about your attraction, do you ask her permission to go off and do the girl, do you invite the girl for a threesome with you and your GF...what do you do? The same set of questions apply for her as well.

    So, if you're going to dump her for wanting to do another guy, go ahead and dump her now. In fact, just become a priest or otherwise give up women entirely. Whether you're man or woman, you WILL have lustful feelings toward others at some point. It's perfectly human and normal to do so. Realize this and just accept it...it's part of your instincts and sexuality. It's part of being human. I personally think accepting this is a big step toward emotional maturity. There's nothing WRONG with feeling that way...right or wrong only enter the picture based on what you CHOOSE to DO with those feelings.

    I felt the same way when I was about your age. I had a girlfriend in college who was (looking back) unquestionably my favorite girlfriend during those whole eight short, easy years. :lol We knew each other for a couple years or so, but we "saw" each other for just under a year. (I do wish I had met her earlier though.) She was a hottie, we meshed really well personality-wise, we had a lot of fun, and the sex was awesome. The semester before she graduated and was going to move away to grad school, she said she wanted to see other people, she was in her last semester here, wanted to enjoy it, and didn't think we were or should get too serious. She said "but I still want to see you too". I said "Ya know, I don't think that would work for me." I wasn't emotionally mature enough to handle "sharing" her, even though I could see other people too. Looking back, I wish I had said "OK, I can share you if you can share me. I'd still like to be your #1 guy though. How do you feel about that arrangement?" I think she would have said "Perfect"...the "I still want to see you too" was the clue that I missed at the time. Instead, we "broke up" (although we remained friends), and I ended up with some psycho-bitch that I almost married. I could have continued to have a fun and sexy relationship with this girl AND be able to pursue other girls as well, and I probably wouldn't have ended up with psycho-bitch attached to me. I have to ask myself now "What the hell were you thinking?" There aren't many decisions in my life I'd change, but that is one of them.

    Anyway, you're asking good questions. Keep 'em coming. Consider that this is just one person's perspective though, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Some folks simply have to chain each other up to not feel jealous and insecure. But, if you can accept some realistic facts about human sexuality and our instincts, I think you can let go of some insecurities and grow as a person in the process.

    BD
     
  13. mindcandy

    mindcandy New Member

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    You offer a very straightforward perspective that my insecurity has inhibited me from looking clearly at this whole situation.
    I totally get the distinction between urges/thoughts/ideas and the actual carrying out of otherwise hypothetical actions...which is why it's futile to worry about or take preventative measures against these actions (especially if they only exist as thoughts, until I am proven wrong).

    I probably should have mentioned that we go to separate colleges, hers is close to home so she takes a bus. I live on campus a few hours away. Even though she is very pretty and great to be around I know that she gets jealous and insecure too (perhaps not to the degree that I do) and needs reassurance from me. Well, this makes sense, everyone needs support sometimes. However, since we only get to see each other a couple times a month (and usually not longer than a weekend) she hangs out with a lot of people between the times I spend with her. She's likable and flirty, and is the type of person who cannot stand being alone and has to be with someone, even if that someone isn't her favorite person. Now at times this has been bad for my insecurity: even though its highly unlikely I always wonder if I'm just a generic person to have around and I'm better than nothing. I believe in chivalry, consider myself pretty nice and easygoing, I haven't given her any reason to think badly of me, like I mentioned I'm passive and possibly even a pushover. So why not have me around, even at the cost of being intimate with me (I guess this is the pessimistic part of my mind rationalizing why she wants to be with me).

    It is for these reasons that I worry that she wouldn't tell me if she did anything with another guy behind my back, because I figure she would only leave me if it was certain that this Hypothetical Other Guy would take care of her. But in the meantime (and this is just my internal battle against my mind, I could be brooding) why not have a little fun with other guys when there's a good chance I won't find out about it? Even if it isn't premeditated or something to spite me, I could see her just feeling lonely and in need of someone to take care of her when I'm not around...and then things go too far [by my standards].

    I've been with this girl for a little over one year; this is my longest relationship and the first one where I actually feel emotionally attached. We are also best friends and though we are both young (19 years old) I could see myself with this girl for a long time. She's a looker and I'm about average, I know other guys are attracted to her and she would have no problem hooking up with other guys if she wanted to.

    If I was presented with a similar situation to yours I could:
    a. Act the way that you did, not being able to get rid of this emotional attachment and being heartbroken that she was able to move on and be with other guys. I want to have my cake and eat it too!
    b. Realize that all hope at an exclusive relationship with this girl was lost, determined by her change of heart and what she had told me...so I'd suck it up, use a condom with her, and keep an eye out for a stable, serious relationship.

    Since every person/situation is different, I can't tell you which option I'd take. If she said that to me I'd be crushed, even though trying to work things out would be a lost cause that would probably be the first thing I'd do. We're both unhappy with the way college is limiting the time we can spend together but its the best we can do at the time.

    I guess I don't have any questions at the time, but I'll definitely ask if anything comes up. Hopefully in time I can put these doubts doubt to rest. I think most of them are just doubts about myself. I probably put my girlfriend in a bad light at first...I really care about her a lot and to the best of my knowledge she hasn't cheated on me.

    By the way BassDude, thanks man. You've been really helpful and I appreciate the time and thought you put into your replies. I look forward to any further insight you can provide.
     
  14. LPjammin

    LPjammin New Member

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    Grow up.

    The serenity prayer;

    God grant me the serenity
    to accept the things I cannot change;
    courage to change the things I can;
    and wisdom to know the difference.


    Now, I'm an agnostic, so, the serenity is probably up to me, so, I treat it that way.

    You can NOT change whether another person is honest and has integrity or not. You can't, so get the fuck over it and quit worrying about whether she is a cheater, a liar or a mattress tag tearer; accept the things you can NOT change.

    Look at yourself; what do you want to change about yourself? Work harder? Smarter? Chase your dreams? Build a better mousetrap? Put on muscle? Get a raise? Go to college to be a fill in the blank? You totally control YOUR integrity and your honesty and that, my boy, is all you got in this world. The rest is a gift. Or not. Courage to change the things you can.

    Wisdom, well, that comes from your instincts, which, if you've had good instincts in the past, they're probably good now, if not, then not. So, trial and error. Live a life. Go do. Go be. Wisdom to tell the difference. Good luck!

    That's enough to keep you busy for now.
     
  15. mindcandy

    mindcandy New Member

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    I know I can't change anything about anyone else, and I know I only have control over myself.
    I am aware of my options I know that I'm the one who controls my actions, I'm just saying that I have limited mental control over myself, which I'm sure is the same for everyone to some degree.
    I know what I can't change about myself and I accept the fact that I can't change my girlfriend, I guess what I was looking for when I originally posted (which I'm fairly certain is all that you read before replying, correct me if I'm wrong) was for a way to get her to open up to me more, about everything.
    I want to know everything about her, the good and the bad, changeable and unchangeable, so I can be more accepting. She knows that I can get jealous feelings sometimes so I'm not sure if she's not telling me things so I don't get mad at her.

    And yes, I know I need to grow up. I don't usually go long without having some form of life-changing revelation or experience, and although it doesn't always manifest itself in a positive way I always learn something and add another penny to my piggy bank of wisdom...
     
  16. LPjammin

    LPjammin New Member

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    I'm not normally this gentle and understanding. I am trying to make positive change as well.

    :D
     
  17. mindcandy

    mindcandy New Member

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    I don't bring it up much with her, and when I have I didn't try to do it in an annoying way or just do it to fish for reassurance. Maybe you're right, maybe looking into it too much is just going to make things worse for us. However, I still don't think it would hurt to discuss these matters online...I might find some useful things to think about or to talk to my girlfriend about.
    I like the prayer, it can be a little daunting for an agnostic but it's something to strive for.
     
  18. LPjammin

    LPjammin New Member

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    Oh, discussing on line is why this site is here. We're total strangers, you can ask anything and you don't know nobody, so, no need to worry about being embarrassed or sounding dumb or whatever. Ask away. And you can take it or leave, the advice you get, and it's nothing, just words in cyberspace.

    The prayer is just words, just some guidelines. The point it is empowers YOU.

    Ask me a question you'd like to ask her and let's see if it's something you should let go or it it's a perfectly normal thing to ask. How about that?
     
  19. mindcandy

    mindcandy New Member

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    Point taken, but I don't actually have a question in mind to ask her. It just seems like she may be feeling that I already question her all the time, and I want her to feel more comfortable just bringing up whatever comes to her mind. I'm terrible at starting discussions, but though I don't feel awkward when we don't talk I know she always has something to talk about. I want to be a conversational catalyst, but I don't always know how to start and whatever I say usually turns to a long drawn-out theory or some sort of rambling. We've talked about it before and she explained that she doesn't always want to tell me things because they're not important and she doesn't want to upset me.
     
  20. LPjammin

    LPjammin New Member

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    Don't you think you are describing a perfect scenario for you to just STFU and let her come to you in her own time and her own way?

    Hero time; just let her breathe have room for awhile and, before long she'll be curious and like "Hey, you don't seem to be wanting to talk much lately..."

    And you just look at her with those loving eyes and say "Baby, I wanted to have your space and let you bring stuff up when you felt like it instead of bugging you all the time."

    Then, she'll be like "Aw, that's so sweet! You don't bug me too much..." which means you do, because you know you do, so don't misread that. She's just being nice back. Then you move in and hug her, look her in her eyes and say "I'm here for you, anytime..." and kiss her.

    Then, before long, you'll be making love, right there on carpet, and fucking like pigs. Afterwards, she'll say "Honey, lets talk about..." and you interrupt her and say "NOW WHAT???"

    Hopefully, you'll both laugh like hell.

    :lol


    I take checks, VISA, MC and, of course, cash.