In need of advice. this is long so hang in there

Discussion in 'Sex and Relationships' started by 82angelfan, May 14, 2006.

  1. 82angelfan

    82angelfan New Member

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    In need of varying advice.

    I recently posted a message stating that my wife left me and I did not know why because she would not talk to me. The not talking was actually the main problem, but after about a week, I got her to start talking to me via emails, and this is what we learned.

    A little background first. We both come from dysfunctional backgrounds and lacked most of the skills needed to make a healthy relationship. As a result we bent over backwards trying to give each other the happiness we did not get growing up. This left us financially strained and building separate lives.

    My wife was controlled by an overprotective mother and dominating sisters. She was also molested. Her only means of escape was a guy she met that was eight years older then her. He also comes from a male dominant society, and controlled her every move. When she met me, we were friends for a long time before we started to date. After our marriage we were best friends, forsaking all of out other friends.

    I came from a very free make your own way and speak your mind type of family my mother is absolutely perfect and the complete definition of unconditional love. Her only fault was that she nurtured alcoholics. My step father was an abusive drunk who hated my brothers and me because we received so much love from our mother. We were also Scottish barbarians and my step father considered himself a Roman. There was a lot of conflict there.

    I tried to give my wife the freedom that I thought I had. I now know she didn’t need that.

    A few years after our marriage, we were bombarded by what I call external chaos. Most of it was in the form of one needy family member after another living with us and taxing our sanity. The last and worst was when a fourteen year old half sibling (my fathers daughter from his second marriage now divorced) I had not seen since she was three moved crossed the street from us. We accidentally received mail at my house due to the same last name. Turns out her mother, my step mother I never knew, was a junkie and my sister was running away from her. Soon after that she came to live with us, and then my half brother came to live there also. These two were extremely damaged and with the exception of keeping my brother from joining the gang he was about to join, we could not stop them from extremely self-destructive behavior. My sister kept a loose dialog with her mom this whole time. We would soon learn how badly the drugs had fucked her up.

    About a year later there was a knock on our door at eleven pm. When we opened the door, there was this six year old boy with a new born baby in his arms. He tells us his mom said he had to come live here. We did not have children so we took them in and raised them as our own. That was eleven years ago and a ton of heartache. Even with counseling and a complete showering of sports, gifts and love, we could not save our son. At sixteen he told us that he would rather drink and use drugs then finish school. He went to live with his mom because she has no rules. At eleven our daughter is still great, but she is extremely beautiful and knows it. I fear for her. She is trying to grow up to fast. This is probably normal.

    Through most of the chaos, I was working on the road Monday thru Friday and spent the weekends exhausted and lethargic. My wife was so happy to be able to get away, that she would do stuff with her sisters on the weekends while I handled the home stuff. She began to hide in here sisters lives and I began to hide in computer games and internet porn. The porn escalated to some pretty sick stuff and finally she asked me stop it and I did. Over my years of traveling my wife told me she was lonely and expressed an interest in girls and we agreed that she could have a girlfriend if I got to watch occasionally. She looked but never acted on it. I was very good and inventive in bed so I was not jealous at all.

    Four years ago I quit my traveling job, and we bought a new house an hour away from her family (we used to live next door}.I call my son leaving the last of the chaos. He turns eighteen in a few weeks.


    After several months of “quite” I noticed my wife did not like to be home. She also stopped saying all the simple things, like good morning and good night. I would ask her if something was wrong, and she would just say, “No, what do you want me to say?”
    This went on for awhile.

    Four months ago she started a new job, on swing shift and it seemed like she would not come home right after work. She told me she was having drinks with her new friends from work. While she was home, she played the most perfect wife ever.

    In April she told me she was going to go on a girl’s only trip to Vegas with some of her married friends. They all needed to get away from the husbands. I gave her a grand for her birthday and let her go. While she was there she would not answer her cell phone and would only send little messages to tell she was still alive. You can see what this sounds like, and it is sort of true.

    When she came back she was very allusive about her trip, and was even more distant, while pretending to be the perfect wife. I wrote her a letter saying that I knew something was wrong, and we need to talk about it. I go to sleep early and she came home at nine read my letter, gave me head, and told me nothing was wrong. We lay in each others arms and finished watching the baseball game while she complained about her day. The next day when I came home from work, she was gone and a Dear John letter was on the desk.



    So now to the present

    After about two weeks, my wife came home, and this is what she told me. After the chaos cleared, she didn’t know who she was. She had been doing a lot of soul searching with her family, and friends. She thought she did not love me, but after a two week absence she realized it was not us, it was our crazy life style. She says she misses the butterflies I always used to give her. We agreed to get counseling and start to work on spending more quality time together. She still has a problem communicating and with the help of email and letter writing, we are working on that. Yippy for us.

    Now to the problem. I am getting old and am out of shape. My job has broken me up and I suffer from aches and pains. I don’t think I have been able to satisfy her for several years. When we first me she was afraid of an orgasm, because of her childhood, now she is multi-orgasmic, and if she does not have ten, she is not fully satisfied. This makes me feel very bad and insecure. I am going for a physical, and starting to exercise.

    A few nights ago, I was giving her a massage, and she was drunk on wine. She started to tell me that for two years she has been having an affair with a married woman she met thru an old co-worker. As we suspected for years, her co-worker and all her friends are bi-sexual. She says nobody can know because co-worker “likes” my wife and her lover, but neither wants to be with the co-worker. Also the woman’s husband is one of those insecure macho guys that can’t understand the need for a different, softer touch. I asked if she would let me watch them some time, and she said no because her lover would freak out. In fact she is not even going to tell her that she told me. I was so turned on by this story that I began to kiss and fuck my wife while asking her details about her activities. We were both turned on, but I still think I failed to satisfy her.

    She also told me that although no one knows about the affair. Her trip to Vegas was one big Lesbian fest.

    She said she still wants to see her a couple of times a month. We agreed that she would, but she has to tell me about it. No more secrets.


    Now for my dilemma. The next day I was bummed out that my wife was living this secret life. I started thinking that I to miss the great sex and I do not have an outlet. Although I want her to continue her bi-sexual life, I feel jealous and left out. Should I let her continue? Should I find something on the side for me? I feel that my wife has broken the trust that we had, and now I am experiencing feelings I never had before. Any advice?

    Feel free to email.
     
  2. Logger

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    I think you should have a plan.

    Sometimes it is kinder to keep excursions secret.

    But now you have a different marriage than you thought you had, up until a few days ago.

    Boundaries is setting what your limits are, and what you are going to do, when your limtis get violated.

    Generally, I try to find things to do that will please my wife. Hopefully, I wil have shown enough love, so that when I ask for an accommodation, that she wil be more wilintg to go along.

    So what can you do to please your wife? What Else?

    What do you want your wife to do differently? How can you presnent your requests to her, in the easiest way?

    Generally speaking, swinging is not for people who do not have quite strong relationship. Your asking your wife to watch, is participating in swinging. Another approach is to say taht you would prefer she minimize her escapades, but the you will accommodate her wishes, as an attempt to please HER. Tellher yo are STANDING, which means that you are being true to your marriage vows, yourself.

    Lately, I have been trying to work in advance of my wife, and letting her know myt wishes, in advacnce, and avoiding criticism after the fact.

    I am looking for easy ways to interrupt a negative chain, if my wife gets started on a negative spiral. I go shopping. What spirals of negativity have you seen? What inerrupters can you ustilize? What are you asking your wife to change now? Climax better?
     
  3. 82angelfan

    82angelfan New Member

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    Logger,

    you are very inciteful. I read your other reply to my first thread and started to do some of your suggestions. I actually don't want to watch my wife at this time. I think I want her to not sneak around. I also fear that if I stop her, she will begin looking elsewhere. I created this sexual creature she is now. When we first met, she was non-sexual. In our years we have experimented with many different types of sexual energy with the exception of pain.

    You talk about negativety, but that is the problem. My wife fears confrontation, so she burries all negative energies untill she walks out the door. She should have won an oscar for her performance the last four months.

    We have had only one fight in 17 years of marriage. That was over my drug use. Do you suggest I try to end her affair?
     
  4. computermaineac

    computermaineac New Member

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    I don't think you should try to end her affair- she may feel like you are trying to control her life, and may leave again. I suggest you two just try to sit down one day, and have a lengthy discussion about what each of you can do to make your marriage better, and less secretive. I definately feel that one of the keys to a good marriage is openness. Even if you're not totally okay with her having her affairs, you should at least know when it is happening.
     
  5. Logger

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    Dear John,

    Generally it is best to have the person be in control, so that the affair is ended by the cheater's own decision. If you use manipulation or power plays to end the affair, you may build up resentment, and increase a tendency toward secrecy.

    You can ask her to end the affair, but as far as insisting, I would have to have a better understanding.

    I would suggest you try to increas your power in the relationship. One is your personal attractiveness. It does not take much time to keep in shape, if you get in shape. But your posture and Aura will improve, if you do even short excercises, occasionally. I bought a Richard Simmons tape for weight loss, used, $2.00.

    What little things does your wife like you to do? What little things are you overlooking?

    Documenting the affair for divorce purposes, with a lawyer and PI might be wise, in case things get sticky.

    One way to end an affair, advocated by Marriagebuilders is to expose the affair. In other words, tell everyone about her affair. I think you should play your hand cooly, and realize that you have several trump cards in your hand.

    There is a concept in the Mormon Church, that each head of family has the right and power to interpret ethical and religious principles, as they apply to their family. There are several principles for you to delineate, for your family. Sometimes an exception is justified. Sometimes the exception is only justified to a period of time or under certain cirumstances. I suggest that you delineate the principles, as they apply to your family.

    Maybe: "Cheating is sinful, but when two women are comforting each other, there may be an exeption for a while, on infrequent occasions."

    I suggest you write out the principles realted to cheating, so you can give moral guidance to your wife. Your wife may choose not to follow your beliefs, but you should be able to express constructive ideals clearly for your family. You can encourage her to strive toward meeting your ideals, but you don't have to be overbearing.

    As you post questions and thoughts, things will probably become more clear for you.

    Search Cheating, Fidelity, True, Fathful.
     
  6. lbushwalker

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    Hi Angelfan,
    Man you have had a turbulent life!
    You wife is back isn't that a wonderful thing?
    Remember a while ago your lament that she had gone.
    The lady is a free soul, leave her be, water will find it's own level and things will eventually stabilise
    Your relationship was never and will probably never be simple or "'normal" in the usual sense so don't aspire to that.
    Accept things as they are, enjoy the beauty of love that exists and build back some trust and companionship.
    If you go off chasing tail now to even the score/ego then buddy your relationship is doomed.
    Two wrongs don't make a right and anyway you poor old carcass probably could not cope the stess of it all as you imply yourself.
    Good luck Amigo.
     
  7. Rose

    Rose Resident Sexy Grandma
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    Truly, when you wife admitted everything, you were:
    1. Relieved that things were out in the open.
    2. Felt like the protective man that you wanted to be for her.
    3. Happy that she came home and wanted to be your wife again.
    4. and most importantly - you were probably in a state of shock at the entire turn of events.

    Now, everything is starting to sink in. You are processing and assessing the information. Take your time, as you may not be thinking totally rationally right now. Like 'bush' said, 2 wrongs dont make a right.

    To help, you may want to keep a journal of your thoughts. You need to express your anger. Write down your thoughts. (NOTE: don't write things with the intention of sharing them with your wife later. That may happen, but this part of 'grief management' is for your personal healing). You will notice that your thoughts change as you go day-to-day. Hopefully you will see a change for the better. You can have a journal on this message board, and you can make it 'private' so only you can log on and read it. Click the JOURNALS tag at the very top of the page.

    The counseling is a great idea for sure. A good counselor will help you two interact with your thoughts slowly, so that neither of you build walls.


    i have some other thoughts, but I don't want to hog the thread. good luck. :tup
     
  8. Stilllearning

    Stilllearning New Member

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    That's quite a summary of a long and tedious journey. Like you, I didn't know much about my wife's secret life until I had been married 30 years. It didn't involve bi-sexuality. It's fascinating to find out and burdening at the same time.

    There are two items I want to point out. First, you began as friends. I once heard it said by someone explaining a long relationship that they never fell out of love at the same time. It's good that you have friendship to fall back upon and find the company of that other person so valuable. I hope that holds you together. My relationship began the same way and I've thought that's what held it together on those mornings when you awaken and think "this marriage won't last through this day".

    Second, you mention having needs of your own. Have you discussed this openly with her? She's been open with you and I would hope that means she would be open to you as well.

    You're about 20 years younger than I am and should still have lots of sexual "oomph" left, although I understand feeling worn out. However, you're considering something on the side, so must have some energy left. I found out about my wife's secret life (a fascination with casual sex) when I was late '50s and found myself suddenly married to a woman with an increased sex libido when mine was decreasing after nearly 30 years of guilt about how strong mine was compared to hers. I actually found forums like this in a search for "anti-viagra" to put an end to decades of sexual warfare. My point is --- don't wait till it's too late. At least you have a friend. Use that gift to the utmost.
     
  9. Rose

    Rose Resident Sexy Grandma
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    You are concerned about your inability to perform for the duration of giving her several orgasms.

    here's a thought:
    She is having an affair with another woman. Obviously, penetration sex is not their main form of sexual pleasure. Why don't you work on the other techniques for giving her pleasure - oral, g-spot stimulation, fingering, dildos and vibrators, etc. Do these various methods before any penetration of your cock. Spend time with them - learn how to 'make love to her' with your tongue (or finger, or dildo....)

    If your wife is willing, ask her to 'instruct' you, as you are doing them. Be patient with yourself. It will take some practice and learning. Her female lover, undoubtedly, knows how to do just the right thing. After all, she's a woman too.

    When the time is right, you may then insert your penis and allow your pleasure to bee completed. You have given her the multi's that she enjoys, and you aren't completely worn out.

    :rose
     
  10. Thorn

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    In your first post you said, "I feel that my wife has broken the trust that we had, and now I am experiencing feelings I never had before. Any advice?" And it will be hard to get rid of those new feelings, if not impossible. Trust takes years to devlope and minutes to through away. It may take a miracle to re-establish it. I know this sounds negative but I know it is true.