I'm sad and confused

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by ninja08hippie, Aug 16, 2010.

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  1. ninja08hippie

    ninja08hippie Official SF Hugger
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    Fox News is reporting that there are protesters arguing against the right of the muslim community to build a mosque two blocks from ground zero. I'm confused.

    How can it be less clear? They bought the land, they can do whatever they want with it.

    Why do they want to build a mosque there? Perhaps because it's a heavy muslim area and they want a place to worship. There is already a mosque there, it predates the world trade centres by a decade. It's not big enough to support the growing muslim population anymore and they need another.

    The idiots who blew up the world trade centres weren't muslim any more than the KKK is christian. There are 1.5 billion muslims, 1.49 billion believe in peace.

    I see that most of the people that seem to care are ignorant rednecks from Texas and Alabama. What the hell do they care what happens in New York? They don't live there, they don't vote there, they have no right to say anything about what happens there any more than I have a say what happens in Texas.

    Christianity spews a lot more hatred in this country than the muslim community. If you believe in Jesus and not Muhammad fine, go to your church and shut the fuck up about it. All religion is equally ridiculous.

    Jesus of Nazareth spoke aramaic, he addressed his lord as "Allah."

    I wanna live in a world of peace :(
    [​IMG]
     
    #1 ninja08hippie, Aug 16, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2010
  2. Northside

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    While I agree with you on the fundamental issue of religious freedom, I find your comment on "rednecks from Alabama and Texas" about as wrong as the position you feel they hold. If I had lost someone on 9/11, I would probably feel like they do too. I also know that the Muslim religion was spread by Muhammed's army. It has been forced on many, many people and that, at it's roots, it also goes against our first ammendment. So I see this as a very complex issue. I am well know for teasing the hell out of Texans, but in reality there are a lot of wonderful open minded and very hospitable and caring people there. My grandfather married a woman from Alabama and she was no "ignorant redneck."

    Wouldn't it be more prudent for the Muslims to find a place a little less conspicuous to build their mosque. We all need time to heal, and while I feel it's their right to have a mosque wherever they want, is this the best place all things considered.
     
  3. ninja08hippie

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    I didn't call all Alabamans and Texans ignorant rednecks, just the idiot ones protesting about muslims that live 3000 miles away from them. LBJ was from Texas.

    All religions force their beliefs on people. You think christianity is any better? Go to a gay marriage in the bible belt and look at the protesters. Oh, that's right, they banned gay rights because it's against their religion, so you can't.

    Why should the muslims be forced to put their mosque somewhere else? They want to build it near where they live. Why force them to cross town to worship just because some stupid mother fuckers thought that allah told them to blow up the world trade centres?

    I'm fundamentally against all religion. Religion has killed more people than cancer, but everyone has a right to believe whatever they want and worship however they want, regardless of how ridiculous I find it. The thing that bothers me the most about christianity and islam is that they both worship the same god. Why do they care how he's worshiped or who they think their messiah was?
     
    #3 ninja08hippie, Aug 16, 2010
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  4. Lucky

    Lucky New Member

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  5. ninja08hippie

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    Wow, you just completely destroyed any credibility that you had in one post.

    Muslims != Muslim Terrorists. Thinking so IS ignorance, so don't claim that you aren't.


    Christians want to fundamentally change the way the USA works. They don't want black people, jews, or gays to be part of our country. And they want us to only speak english. Watch the KKK's youtube videos and read up more before making accusations.

    See what I did? I did exactly what you did except instead of grouping 1.5 billion muslims in with a few thousand fundamentalist assholes I grouped 2 billion christians with a few thousand KKK assholes who claim to be doing christian work. Not so much fun when someone completely warps your religion because of a few nuts now is it?


    Christian churches aren't allowed in muslim states because their laws are muslim, that's their official religion and the only one recognized. The USA has no official religion and has to respect all religions. It does not have to work both ways. The muslims who want to worship in new york are as American as you or me.
     
    #5 ninja08hippie, Aug 16, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2010
  6. Mittimer

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    I don't have much to say because honestly, I'm against it too. I just find it too odd that they chose THAT site when they could have chosen any other place in New York to build it. Granted, it's up to NY in the end.

    But as Americans WE ALL have the right to speak our minds about it. If we want to complain in Florida about something that we disagree with in New York, so be it.

    Ninja, I do find the statement you made about ignorant Texans and Alabamians a bit harsh and uncalled for. There are just as many uneducated in any other state of America. BUT just because they are uneducated doesn't give them any more or less of a right to have an opinion.

    I think the point you were trying to get across was that you felt that anyone who isn't directly affected by this (mainly in the ground zero area and surrounding) shouldn't really be complaining. I get that you feel this way but think you could have phrased it in a way without offending members of the states you so eloquently pointed out.


    Now Lucky, I have to disagree with you telling him to watch Fox news. While I do like SOME of what Fox news has to offer they are EXTREMELY biased right winged channel. I'm saying this as a formally registered republican. I used to watch Fox on a nightly basis and even though they deny any bias people claim they have, it's still there. While I'm sure you may disagree with that and I completely respect your opinion, I just don't think pointing Ninja (the following said with NO DISRESPECT INTENDED) who seems to be way to free spirited to fully grasp what the news will have to say.

    I do however agree that the main stream media does over hype the situation and have their own type of bias as well. I tend not to watch the news now days and just read everything I can online from either outside sources or sites dedicated to the raw truth of things.





    ***One last thing to add***
    As a mod I can see this post getting blown up. Let's TRY to be as civil as possible.
     
  7. ninja08hippie

    ninja08hippie Official SF Hugger
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    Opinion is one thing, arguing against the first sentence in the bill of rights is another.
     
  8. Mittimer

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    I completely agree.
     
  9. Lucky

    Lucky New Member

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    I am not going to get into a debate with you and let this get out of hand but I do want to point out thqat this country was founded on Judeo Christian principles. But more important, You don't seem to understand the deep seated feelings that the 911 site instill in the rest of us. It is not a New York thing, it is a national thing. They attacked all of us not just NY. So we all have the right to have an opinion on what they are trying to do. And you are good at throwing the insults but slow to recognise how peoples emotions run, hardly a peacmaker you make! I am nbot in the least worried about my credibility in your eyes. I have seen how your actions are led by your emotions, it's your way or your leaving. Well, it's not going to be your way always. Besides, that belongs in a political forum not a sex forum.

    Texas Proud!
     
  10. ninja08hippie

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    Say I had grouped all Texans as ignorant rednecks (I didn't, but say I had.) How would that be different than you grouping one and a half billion muslims as terrorists?

    The USA's constitution is based on Greek democracy, they specifically made it so that religious freedom was guaranteed. If you read the Qu'ran or take a religious history course, you'd know that Islam has the exact same roots as both judaism and christianity. You're all followers of Abraham and Moses. Christianity split off after Jesus around 20AD, Islam split off after Muhammad around 610AD. Jesus himself called god "Allah."

    I didn't mean to make a political thread, I was just posting about a disgrace I saw. I didn't imagine that there would be people that would actually agree with that. Sexually progressive people are usually socially progressive too.

    I don't even fully comprehend the protestor's thought process unless they just aren't thinking deep enough. They will sue to keep the mosque out, the builders will appeal at the state court, the bigots will appeal at the supreme court. The supreme court will uphold the bill of rights, that's they're job.
     
    #10 ninja08hippie, Aug 16, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2010
  11. Mittimer

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    I'm confused >.>
    Why was I quoted?
     
  12. ninja08hippie

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    Actually, I was confused by that too.

    I thought it might mean that he was disagreeing with you, but he also called himself a proud american. He can't be a proud american and not agree with the first amendment. I think he was going to respond to something else you said, decided not to and just forgot to take the quote out. :ugh

    But Mitt you agree with me right? Your opinion as to whether or not you want it there doesn't matter when it comes to their right to put it there?

    Hell, I don't want mosques, churches, temples, monasteries or any religious building built anywhere, you all know my views on religion. But americans have the right to worship just as I have the right not to.
     
    #12 ninja08hippie, Aug 16, 2010
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  13. Mittimer

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    Yes, I agree.

    While I may not personally want that building there on that particular site, my opinion doesn't matter when it's their RIGHT to put it there. I wouldn't protest to stop them because that's utterly pointless. There is a multitude of things I personally don't agree with and I may voice my opinions on those matters, but I will not go above and beyond with futile efforts to take away someones right to do those things.


    I will however raise a stink and throw a fit in the comfort of my own home and toss an occasional shoe or flash drive at the tv every time a story like the above mentioned does come on.
     
    #13 Mittimer, Aug 16, 2010
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  14. Lucky

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    The keys here are they branched off and now are nothing like the other religions. They kill in the name of their religion.

    Noone is taking away their right to worship or trying to, we just don't want it near the site that killed so many people in the name of their Allah.

    I would suspect that having gone to war in service of my country and actually fighting for our freedoms and way of life, snd being disabled because of it, I have a different perspective than someone that did not.

    I have several friends that worked or served in Muslim nations. What they come home knowing should scare the daylights out of all of us. Being PC about them will get us killed. They don't think like civilized people. Life is not worth anything to them.

    There are more shom think like me than like you, and they come from all states. I still think you owe those of us from Texas and Alabama a real apology.
     
  15. Mittimer

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    Alright guys, this is turning into something we really don't want it to turn into. In the chance that there are people of the Muslim faith on this website, this thread really is very unfair to them.

    I suggest we get back on topic or this thread is being closed.
     
  16. ninja08hippie

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    I apologize to all Texans and Alabamans who are not like you. You are a bigot, grouping over a billion people together as terrorists. Please don't post in this thread anymore, your completely warped view on Islam as a valueless and evil religion makes you unqualified to debate with me.

    Do me a favour, go to a map and point to the muslim part of the world. Did you point to the middle east? If so then you might want to read up on Islam a little bit. Yeah, Mecca is there and a half of a billion muslims, can you find the other billion?

    BTW, I've personally been in Indonesia, Egypt, Morocco, and Turkey, all have 90% muslim population or higher, Morocco and Turkey are over 99% muslim. Morocco, Turkey, and Egypt even have their official religion set as Islam. I walked around by myself. I didn't get bombed, kidnapped, robbed, or shot at.

    I think you own a 1.5 billion muslims an apology.

    Out of curiosity, do you think all black people are gang members? Most gang members are black. If you think most muslims are terrorists because most terrorists are muslim, you must think all black people are gang members because most gang members are black. Exact same type of bigotry and profiling.
     
    #16 ninja08hippie, Aug 16, 2010
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  17. Mittimer

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    Ok ok ok, this is going WAY to far.

    Guys, I love ya all and I agree that a good debate is awesome every once in a while but until everyone can cool down and STOP flinging shit at eachother, this thread is closed.
     
  18. Mittimer

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    Alright guys I want you all to listen to me.

    I COMPLETELY understand that this is a VERY heated topic with certain people and I understand that everyone is responding in a manner they see fit when it comes to this. EVERYONE at one time in this thread has felt personally attacked and I think a lot of things are being said that really don't need to be.

    If everyone can't calm back down and get back to the topic at hand, this thread will not be reopened.

    In regards to warnings that were given out. It wasn't to be malicious. It was just a way of saying "Cool the fuck down".
     
    #18 Mittimer, Aug 16, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
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