Hypergamy or variety?

Discussion in 'Sex and Relationships' started by Sagittarius84, May 6, 2017.

  1. Sagittarius84

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    Polyamorous lifestyles seem to be quite popular within the forum, as evidenced by personal testimonies and advice given by many of the posters here. I don't have specific data, but it seems amongst male and female members, a multiple male/single female arrangement is the most popular. Having read accounts of numerous polyamorous encounters/relationships, as well as referencing instances of infidelity, two differing motivations seem to reveal themselves: men seem to seek multiple women for variety's sake, women ultimately seem to be seeking the "better" man. This attitude seems to be reinforced by the cuckold/hot wife male faction;who seems to get the most pleasure out of seeing their SO being pleasured by a man bigger/richer/stronger/more sexually capable than themselves. Yet, I can't say I've read one account of a woman deriving personal satisfaction from watching her man fuck a woman that would be considered conventially more attractive than herself.
    So anybody is welcome to weigh in, but I am especially curious to hear the opinions/feelings of those in the poly lifestyle.
     
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  2. kqrt

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    I don't think it is about finding a better man from the woman's point of view, but I will let women speak for themselves. In my case, we are considering an open marriage arrangement because she has a much higher sex drive than I do. In all cases, it's about variety of partners.
     
  3. Sagittarius84

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    Well, that's exactly why I referred to the "better" man in quotes, because I think there's a bit of a subjective dissonance in self reporting such things. I'm curious, for your particular situation, are you putting forth guidelines as to acceptable extra marital partners, or is that completely to her discretion?
     
  4. kqrt

    kqrt Member

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    We haven't decided to go that route yet, but we are considering it. If we do go that way, there will be an agreement with rules as to acceptable partners (no mutual friends, etc.) that minimize awkwardness but otherwise probably it would be her discretion.
     
  5. uncutpete

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    I am the outside man for couples. I always have 2 or three regulars going. For those couples it is almost about the wife getting more satisfaction from me. I am married and my wife has an active outside sex life. She has never wanted to be monogamous, nor have I although we are life partners
     
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  6. Sagittarius84

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    I think you and your wife's arrangement is slightly different from what I originally postulated, but as far as your external couplings as "the outside man", are you providing more satisfaction by virtue of mere quantity, or is there a heightened sexual experience you are able to provide the husband is not?
     
  7. Sagittarius84

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    Sometimes I try to avoid certain interrogatives, because sometimes it seems I'm trying to make a point, but given the point you and your wife are at, I can't resist delving into the psychology, so please tell me if I overstep. Assuming through some innocent means you become aware of the identities of your wife's encounters, or if you are the type of couple to share such information, is there any apprehension that her choices will trump you in ways other than just simply sexual drive?
     
  8. uncutpete

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    What a delicate way of asking. For us, no, there is no question. We are stuck to each other by love and passion, and have been for a very long time... and since we can both have the variety that our considerable sex drives demand, there would be no reason for either of us to lose the other. We know virtually all of the identities, descriptions and personalities of the other's partners. So, and I don't excuse your use of the phrase, "Trumping" is not even an issue. If you would like to know details, send me a private message.
     
  9. uncutpete

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    Almost always my "outside man" status is that of satisfier. Sexual pleasure is a matter of quantity (measurable in size and time, both of which I offer) and quality (passion and skill, both of which I offer). I love women, and I love satisfying unsatisfied ones.
     
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  10. Sagittarius84

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    That sentiment was aimed more towards kqrt. As I said before, I think the situation with you and your wife exists on a different paradigm as you both are open to engage in extra marital ventures. Your experiences with other couples, however seems quite applicable to the question at hand, and lends credence to the notion the women there are seeking you for hypergamous purposes as opposed to seeking mere variety.
     
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  11. kqrt

    kqrt Member

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    The answer is no. We are, after all, married and do trust one another. You seem to be hung up on the idea that women have ulterior motives for open marriages that go beyond sex. Maybe that's true for some women, but I don't think it is true in general. Open marriage is not partner shopping.
     
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  12. Sagittarius84

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    I think a fair amount of people that initiate open marriages, independent of gender, have ulterior motives for doing so, though I wouldn't necessarily classify said motives as being derived from malevolent intent. Again I'm looking at this from more of a "big picture" perspective, so I look at almost all situations that seem to be indicitave of many of our ingrained polyamorous natures. So far, as confirmed by at least one person, it seems women choose him as a desirable "third/bull/etc." specifically due to his "attractiveness" outranking that of the husband. This trend reflects upon itself within female infidelity, as well as when women partake of prostitution. Alternatively there are probably terabytes of accounts by women utterly confused by their spouse's decision to cheat upon them with, or to seek the professional services of, a woman whose attractiveness/sexual prowess is less than or equal to theirs. Interestingly enough, only when the husband is one of the few men that exercise overarching power and influence does there seem to be a palpable concern of their extra marital exploits wandering into the realm of hypergamy(though relative to him, is almost always hypogamous)
    Hopefully some polyamorous ladies will chime in. I'm especially interested in those that engage in one sided polyamory; for those ladies that have the multiple lovers, would you classify your choices as comparable or sexually "better" than your spouse? Are there any even any ladies on this forum for whom their husband has the multiple lovers and they do not? Or is the supposed rarity of said situation in a mutually agreed upon fashion a lesson in of itself?
     
  13. uncutpete

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    Yes, true. Though I'm sure a lot of couples, a lot of wives, simply seek variety when they bring another man into their sex, that has rarely been the case with me. Perhaps because of my endowment, the vibe I give out, word of mouth, and of course what I seek out, the large majority of the wives who I have fucked, and all who I fuck now, are looking for new pleasure and satisfaction that they lack with their husbands. The husbands agree. And I get a tremendous charge from doing it.
     
  14. Sagittarius84

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    That ultimately is what I think makes polyamory such a hot button issue, especially when there are multiple male/singular female couplings. I'm a firm believer that polyamory in of itself is morally ambiguous, but the issue is more of people engaging in it as consolation to some other issue, or people abstaining from it because they don't see it as a viable option.
    In the case of you uncutpete, is there ever any concern the husbands are simply going along with for fear of being left behind? Have you ever gotten the notion that if you were more compatible in ways outside of the bedroom with these women, and if there were little to no social blowback, that they would opt to simply leave their husbands for you, as opposed to you merely being a "supplement"?
     
  15. sensless

    sensless Well-Known Member

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    I know my man is only attracted to beautiful women, half my age. He doesn't care if they're dumb, or smart. It's only about their looks. He sees them on Fridays, sometimes Saturdays, too, because it fits his lifestyle. And he prefers to see them without me, so we don't go out on weekend evenings together. And I'm perfectly happy with it. I wish I could watch him with other women, but he's shy and I don't invade his privacy.

    He doesn't need this, just like I don't need to have sex with other men. But it's fun. When we feel like doing it, we do. It's as simple as that. If he wants to bring then home, to our bed, I can sleep in another room. I don't mind.

    Sometimes we play together at clubs.

    As for myself, it isn't as if I needed a reason to be in an open relationship. It's the other way around. I'd need a reason to be monogamous! With us, for most things I can think of, if there's no scientific reason for a certain behavior, we'll only do what gives us pleasure. Monogamy is unnatural. There's no reason why I should be monogamous.

    I don't see relationships as an arrangement where one should lose something, like one's freedom. Realistically, it isn't 100% so, because we all make certain compromises. But if I'd be pushed and pulled too much, I'd just leave. I've already done that.

    The men I have sex with have a few characteristics in common, with only a few exceptions. They look good and are fun to have sex with. I like variety, but only pertaining to what we do in bed. And it's only sex. When they start to get clingy, they're out of my list. It's very easy to replace a man.

    I don't look for a man who's better than my man. I look for a man who's different. For instance. I get a lot of fantastic oral home. The best oral. So, when I have other partners, I avoid getting oral.

    The variety goes for penises, too. My man still has the most beautiful one I've ever seen. But other men can be fun, too. Big penis, tiny penis... why to settle for one experience, when I can have them all?

    I also do stuff that don't excite me at all, sexually. But that I find to be fun experiences. I've done all sorts of things between consenting adults. If it's different, I'm in.

    It doesn't change who I am. I'm a vanilla woman, who loves an ultra vanilla man. We have great sex. But we have a lot of sex between us. It gets boring, all this vanilla mix. We've been together for almost 24 years and our sex life has never had pauses. It's a lot of repeating the same things, with our vanilla repertoires.

    But I didn't become non-monogamous because of boredom. I've just never been monogamous. It has never made sense to me. All the men in my life knew and know how I am and what I think about it. Even the non vanilla ones.

    A man may be very creative in bed. But he's still only "one" man.
     
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  16. Sagittarius84

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    Thank you for the perspective @senseless, though much like uncutpete, I think the paradigm is somewhat different as both you and he are engaging in extra marital exploits as well as your respective spouses. There's a certain symmetry present I think offsets any feelings of inadequacy, because frankly, both of you are getting yours.
     
  17. Sagittarius84

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    Maybe I should have specified beyond simply "polyamory". I'm talking to the MFF, MFM, and MMF crowd, and specifically why there seems to be a much less earnest desire for FMF situations.
     
  18. sensless

    sensless Well-Known Member

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    I talk to a lot of mostly hetero men about sex and fantasies. With no exceptions, it's a FMF they fantasize about!

    The problem is that most men can't get it.

    Before I say more, why did you get the idea FMF would be the less desired threesome variety?
     
  19. sensless

    sensless Well-Known Member

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    Here, some research results found on a peer reviewed paper about fantasies of men and women related to this topic. I've rounded the numbers. The first one indicates the percentage of men fantasizing about it, the second is that for women with the same fantasy. It agrees with my own research, though my subjects are almost all male and my sample is smaller.

    Participate in sex with two women: 85 x 37
    Watch two women having sex: 82 x 42
    Sex with more than 3 people, all women: 75 x 25

    Sex with more than 3 people both men and women: 16 x 57
    Sex with two men: 45 x 31


    Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jsm.12734/abstract
     
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  20. Sagittarius84

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    Anecdotally it seems to never get beyond the fantasy phase, to the point women sought for MFF or FMF encounters have earned the moniker of "unicorn". What was most illuminating was reading accounts from this and a couple other sexually based forums, and the overwhelming demand amongst both men and women seems to be multiple male/single female couplings. I've lost count of how many posts I've read about men going absolutely crazy about watching or enjoying their wives/gfs being fucked by another man, and see very few posts of women actually desiring to see their male significant others fucking other women. In fact I'd be willing to bet within this particular forum you'd find more women looking to see their male SO with another man as opposed to another woman. It seems to be a reactionary response to our patriarchal history and the territorial paradigm it set up for men, by inducing the same territorial urges amongst a newly sexually liberated sexual populace. That's why I specifically wondered about earnest desire, because while FMF and MFF may be highly sought after amongst men, it seems unless said man occupies a certain level of Fame, power, or finance, most women can't be bothered. For someone like myself seeking an FMF(preferably MFF) situation, it's a bit disheartening because they're doesn't seem to be any valid advice on how to make that possible, short of being fortunate enough to have a "unicorn" as your SO. Meanwhile, men and women, at least within this forum, in cases of marital issue, sexual dysfunction, infidelity, or those simply seeking variety, almost seem to recommend MMF and MFM encounters as a panacea. It seems for all the fantasies as they are reported, men and women would prefer to add another man to the mix, as opposed to another woman, though I wonder if it's a "path of least resistance" thing.