how religion can affect…

Discussion in 'Sex and Relationships' started by CurvedUp, May 24, 2012.

  1. CurvedUp

    CurvedUp Member

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    how one is affectionate and the life of the relationship regarding making love.

    Here is the deal. I am 53, she is 47. Been together for over six years.

    Early on she was part of the reason I got a vasectomy, but yet it was time anyway and I was ready. Both of my brothers younger than me had it done years before me. I have saved money on condemns. But then again a 12 pack of them would have last for a year before separating. Yep once a month.

    Sex has a part of our life as much of anything. Even our religious beliefs and the background we have shared that part. Our lives paralleled one another on my levels.

    In the last year, she is dealing with, the Bible and sex with out marriage thing. For me, I don't believe that it is a sin. Not sure I take the words of Paul for much. But then that is me.

    Here is where I am at with this. If you take what is being said by the faithful and the words they share. Not just sex is off limits, just about anything else is off.

    So I made the comment. If we ban sex, then we ban holding hands, kissing or anything that leads up to what brings on sex, cause that is what is being said by those that want to ban sex without being married.

    Her comment was well do we have to that. I said yes if you want to ban sex then we ban all that leads to it.

    thoughts?
     
  2. boobjob

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    I believe that people generally misunderstand the relationship between religion and sex. I believe that Christian teachings encourage sex as a sacramental act between a man and a woman joined in a commited loving relationship. Having sex is actually part of the promise of marriage.I believe in God and I I believe that really good sex is the closest we can come to God the feeling of ecstacy of simultaneous crushing orgasms is transformative. The abilty to create life by such an act is unique in human experience. I think that the bible teaches us to share our love with one person precisely because it is a window into how much God loves us. I think that it is unfortunate that catholics feel that religion discourages sex. That is not what Pope John Paul taught.
     
  3. CurvedUp

    CurvedUp Member

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    So you are saying that for the sake of marriage, we need to be married even though we live apart to be intimate? You did not address whether or not we should kiss. JUST kiss

    The deal is we have had the "ecstacy of simultaneous orgasms" many times. Does this mean that we will go to hell? This is the best love making we have. Despite I challenge our love life to be more.
     
  4. Miamia

    Miamia Member

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    As I don't believe in god, I see the bible from another point of view. The authors of the ancient bible texts displayed their points of view in a metaphorical way. Some of them tried to give good advice to the people. As nobody is interested if you just say: Don't do murder! They used god as an imaginary authority and wrote down something like: Don't do murder, it's a sin, god forbids it.

    In those ages, it caused a lot of trouble for a woman to have sex before marriage. If she got pregnant and her guy just left her, she had no way to earn money to care for her child and herself. So "Don't have sex before marriage" was a good advice long time ago. And again the imaginary authority was used to make people follow this kind of advice.

    So today I don't see any sense in not having sex before marriage, if you are religious or not. You don't get pregnant if you don't want it. And it is no problem for single mothers to take care for their children.
     
  5. boobjob

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    So today I don't see any sense in not having sex before marriage, if you are religious or not. You don't get pregnant if you don't want it. And it is no problem for single mothers to take care for their children.[/QUOTE]


    Much of what you said makes sense but you sort of reverse your argument. You actually conclude with you underlying assumtions.

    Many women do get pregnant who don't want to. No contraception is 100% effective. Condoms break. A pill may be forgotten. Illness may affect the the efficacy of the pill.

    More importantly I take issue with no problems for single moms. There are plenty of problems for two parent families. Those problems ar multiplied in single parent situations. Oh sure, it can be done but do not pretend it is easy. Raising a child is a huge reponsibility.

    That being said you are right that things are different than they were. But I wonder if that changes right and wrong. In the US we look to our inalienable rights to life liberty and the pusuit of happiness. If our rights are inalienable then shouldn't our responsibilities be inalienable. Why should our morals change over time. If something is right or wrong shouldn't it stay right or wrong?

    I think that sex is right. Marriage itself is a human invention to reflect the commitment that two people make to each other. I wonder if they are related. I honestly don't know anymore.
     
  6. Slipikins

    Slipikins New Member

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    I'm confused. If it is such an issue and you guys are committed and both religious, then why not just get married?
     
  7. CurvedUp

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    Miamia, that is about as simple as I have ever seen it.

    Now, it is about trying to explain it the person I want to be with. Yet I have tried to make this point about how it is funny that Christian are good about picking and choosing verse to make their point. This thing about no sex be for marriage is one of them.

    Like I said, there are many that would say holding hands is for bidden. I asked her she was willing to that. She said she did not think that is was a sin. So where is the line?

    Thanks for your view
     
  8. CurvedUp

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    Slipkins,

    It is a bit complicated. So here it is. I live 25 miles from her. I have a 15 old son that goes to school 12 minutes from me. His mom, we no longer are married, live less than that. We have had joint custody of both our kids and have stayed within close proximity to each other to keep it that way. My kids come first until they are at least in college. One is.

    The other thing, I live an hour from my family as it is now, she lives within 15 minutes of hers. Moving to where she lives would add 30 minutes to the drive to see them and only have two bridges to cross over a river. Traffic is already an issue. And I see them regularly. Getting married right now out of the sake of "making it right" would not be right.

    We see each other, if we are lucky once a week on the weekends and now and then during the week.

    I don’t have an issue with being intimate. She some how has been convinced that we are sinning. But one source she is getting this from is someone who married a Mormon. And she is a Christian. I have no feeling one way or another on that, but you read what is being said on this whole issue is, she is sinning just as much as we are cause she married a "non believer" This is where I tire of he said, she said on what is right and wrong.

    Just a bit of history on this/
     
  9. CurvedUp

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    By the way, my religious belief for the good or bad of it, is not base on a literal interpenetration of the word. Not sure I can believe that Johna was really in the belly of a whale. It is a story. So if that is said, then what else is just a story?
     
  10. boobjob

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    It sounds like her religous beliefs are very important to her. It sounds like they are part of her identity. I think that if you really love her you have to accept who she is. You can not hope to change her. If it is meant to be then you will have to work but it will happen. Good luck.
     
  11. Slipikins

    Slipikins New Member

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    That all makes sense...I was just curious if marriage is what she's wanting and so she is playing all her cards to force the issue. But since you mentioned Mormons it makes even more sense. Does she realize that she is getting spiritual advice from someone that believes in magic underwear and that dinosaurs come from other planets? I could go on and on but we all have the internet and access to Google.

    I have no real advice on the issue because I don't find it to be sinful to love another person and express that love through sex...so I offer banter and mockery of silly ideologies. :eyes
     
  12. CurvedUp

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    Here is the funny about the Mormon connection. Her friend is the one who is saying we are sinning is the Christian believer, yet she married the Mormon, I guess to convert him? Yet she is the one saying we are the sinners, when what I have read recently is, that even those that marry outside of the "faith" are sinning. Including Mormons. Again I have no issue either way on being Mormon, what I have an issue is how Christians can claim being righteous. The line is moved and changes with the wind, just look at the far right Christian politicians claiming to be and the donking the first thing that comes along and wants them. Woman or Men.
     
  13. Slipikins

    Slipikins New Member

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    I think you are trying to split hairs because Mormons are considered "Christians".

    "According to the World Christian Encyclopedia (year 2000 version), global Christianity had 33,820 denominations."

    They all have different beliefs that tend to contradict one another and they all think they are correct. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. I tend to agree with boobjob. You either have to accept her wavering beliefs, come up with a compromise, or walk away. But to try to argue what one Christian sect says against another is futile and will drive you crazy. Just my opinion though. Good Luck!
     
    #13 Slipikins, May 24, 2012
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  14. CurvedUp

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    Google do Christians see Mormon as Christians and you will seen that most don’t. Just like Jehovah Witness's are not see as believers.

    It is driving me crazy. Because up until she was told she was a sinner this was never an issue.
    She was hot, still is, but have to turn up the heat a lot more. Once there, we are cooking!!

    Thanks anyway for your thoughts!
     
  15. OverSinged

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    It can effect a relationship greatly, or it can just be some extra piece of knowledge about your partner. It all depends on how... rabid the two are about religion.
     
  16. CurvedUp

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    Neither of us are that rabid. I am way less. Needless to say we are working on this.

    Just thought I would see if there was any other experiences out there.
     
  17. OverSinged

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    If I knew it wouldn't have worked, I'd be able to tell you that an agnostic/christian with a very christian family doesn't work well together *shrug*
     
  18. Dragon_Fire

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    If she's only been searching for Biblical answers for a year, there's a chance she may just as suddenly toss it away and become "agnostic" again. It's not the same as coming from a strict Catholic upbringing where she's never known any different.

    I studied the Bible with Jehovah's Witness off and on for most of my adult life and I'm pretty confident about what the Bible does and doesn't say about fornication. I've been torn up inside at times about my need and desire to stay sexually active with non-believers while still attending regular Bible meetings. In the end, my flesh and my own beliefs won over the beliefs of the congregation.

    I agree that marriage is a manmade invention and that sex within a committed relationship is not truly fornication as in the early days of the Bible marriage as we know it didn't even exist anyway.

    I believe that anyone that attempts to emulate Jesus Christ is a Christian, regardless of which denomination they come from. I have heard churchies claim JW's are not Christian but they are no more true Christian's themselves. The names Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran etc don't make them Christian, their beliefs and practices do.

    As for whether or not your girlfriend is a hypocrite for holding hands, kissing and so on while withholding sex is dependent on the circumstances. If she kisses you knowing that it arouses you and teases you, then it is technically as bad as the fornication that she is avoiding. If she kisses you as a friend, that really is not so bad, so maybe you need to clear that up.
     
  19. cbrmale

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    I live in an irreligeous country so am always amused by the American pre-occupation with religion. Nonetheless anyone can write 'I believe...', without that meaning anything at all.

    The reality is that the New Testament is Paul's view of the world, and Paul was perhaps asexual or perhaps a repressed homosexual. Either way he wasn't sexually normal, and the religion is not sexually normal either. Never has been and never will be.

    On the other hand the Old Testament, which is a reduced version of the Jewish Torah, IS sexual. But it also encourages slavery and concubines and raping the women of your defeated foes and things like that.

    Nonetheless the New Testament takes priority and it is asexual.

    I'm agnostic.
     
    #19 cbrmale, May 25, 2012
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  20. cbrmale

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    Re: how religion can effect…

    Pretty much all of it I'm afraid, and I was taught this by Anglican ministers and bishops. This church, one of the largest, doesn't believe what it preaches. This is why my father terminated his studies to be a minister, because he wasn't hypocritical enough to preach what he knew to be a 'nice fairy story' (his words).

    In any case we do know that the Romans never had a census that forced families to return to the matrilineal place of birth. So this means there was no stable, manger, three wise men, star in the east, Bethlehem, nothing. Christmas day, December 25, is a corruption of a Celtic feast day (the shortest day of the year, from which everything grows). Easter, of course, is a Celtic fertility day (and a sexual free-for-all at the time).

    Once you realise the original, basic story was a total fabrication, you have to ask what else in the New Testament can be believed? Some? A Little? None?

    What of the dozens of gospels that were left out of the Bible? What story did they tell and why were they discarded? Why are Pauls letters so important? When was the oldest gospel written (Mark, hundreds of years and many re-tellings later). I could go on and on but I think you get my drift.
     
    #20 cbrmale, May 25, 2012
    Last edited: May 25, 2012