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Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Hot Wheels, Jun 9, 2013.
Or not?......your thoughts??....
US surveillance leaker 'not afraid' - Yahoo!7
He's gonna end up like Bradley Manning or Julian Assange I fear. Yes, he did the right thing, exposing bad government is always the right thing to do.
He will be tried for treason, and either sent to a secret prison or executed, same as private Manning. The government doesn't like people who show that it's run by tyrants.
I think the NSA should be renamed KGB, just so that people know what it's actually there for. They don't catch terrorists, terrorists don't use cell phones, they use private encrypted IP. They specifically target Occupy Wall Street, Tea Party, or other discontent movements. They aren't counter terrorists, they are thought police.
I find it more interesting that conservatives are calling fowl now. Liberals are calling fowl now too, but also called fowl in 2003 when the Patriot Act which first allowed the government to do this was signed.
Look at the photograph down in this article:
NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I do not expect to see home again' | World news | The Guardian
A lamp in his hotel room is visible. You can be sure that right now, American agents are going to every hotel in Hong Kong to see if they have lamps like that. They will find Mr. Snowden. So the answer is no, he didn't do the right thing when he posed carelessly in that photograph.
They won't have to, they have ways of getting him out.
When the bush administration tried to get tommy chong in jail for his bong sales, they tricked his son into selling a bong across state lines and created charges against him to get tommy to do a plea bargain. Entrapment is easy for the government do to and hard for the defense to prove. I see no reason they won't do something similar here. They'll take anything that the family has ever done wrong and use it to throw them in jail until he comes forward.
The other way they could do it is to wait for him to turn up in another country (other than china,) then make phony charges in that country to get him arrested there, then extradite him to the usa. We tried to do that with Julian Assange, it didn't work for a number of reasons. The swedes leaked info showing that the changes were phony, and he wasn't an american in the first place so the europeans had no legal obligation to hand him over, not the case here.
I think he'd have done better to remain anonymous and continue to leak info. Now it's just a matter of time before they find him, lock him away in some hole, and manufacture claims against him to try to sully his name and make him look like a treasonous malcontent.
Fuck?......you been reading that thesaurus again??
I had to google that.....
I'm curious, how is Fox News spinning this? They loved the Patriot act when it let a conservative government spy on americans, and they hated when leaks of war crimes embarrassed the conservative president. Are they going to flip their position because a liberal is in the white house, or are they going to be consistent and defend big brother?
Et voilà--here is where he was staying. See how easily he gave himself away?
You can see the same lamps and the same headboard. However, the press also found him already this morning by calling hotels and finding that he had registered in his own name. And he claims to be a trained spy!
Anyway, he checked out of the hotel before the press (or I) found him, so he's still at large.
Perhaps he had no more information to leak, and thus had no reason to keep his identity secret any longer. I recall reading that he had sorted through all sorts of information very carefully, picking and choosing what to reveal. Maybe he felt that by revealing his identity, the government would have a harder time dealing with this from a PR standpoint. EDIT: I don't feel that I would've made my identity and location so easy to spot, as he did, but he might've had his reasons for doing so. I don't know.
Do I feel he did the right thing? Yes. The more news like this comes out, the harder it gets for the public to ignore. I found what Obama said to be laughable. "You can't have 100 percent security and then also have 100 percent privacy and zero inconvenience. You know, we're going to have to make some choices as a society." While I do believe he's right in the first statement, society needs to be fully informed on the matter so they can make an informed choice, no? The government is making the choices, not society.
The more government tries to control it's people, the more it's people will demand that we control it, the tighter it's going to hold the reigns, the more violently the people will revolt. Plutocracy does not like being revealed in a country that is supposed to be a democracy, plutocracy is supposed to be hidden behind the curtain, social media is making that very difficult. That's why things like SOPA or CISCPA keep showing up in congress, they are trying frantically to search for a way to censor the internet and filter out information, but I think we've reached a tipping point where information travels faster than any government could hope to control it. Violent revolutions happened in the arab world, I helped peacefully by hacking into networks in Egypt and Libya. Egypt tried to filter out information by shutting down mobile and internet networks, hackers brought them back up by patching them through military networks, allowing the protests to continue to organize. I hope the revolution in the usa will be more peaceful, and I have a feeling that before 2030, the usa will become a democracy. In a global world, where people communicate over oceans on a daily basis, propaganda has less of an impact. They can no longer say that our private health care system is working when half the country can't access it, bush 1 and reagan constantly used the phrase "go ask a canadian" as propoganda to make their followers think that canadian health care was in the shitter, with the internet, now people actually can ask canadians and we've found out that their system works much better, especially for sick and poor people. We thought it worked in the areas that voted in bulk because new yorkers never saw the suffering of poor people in north carolina having to perform their own stitches because they couldn't afford doctors, now a quick youtube search allows us to see it. Even tiny things can have massive consequences for politicians as the republican party is finding out. 10 years ago, Mitt Romney could easily have said that he was a champion for american business, and very few people would have noticed that all of his campaign buttons, hats, and bumper stickers were made in china, now, someone on reddit noticed and a day later it was all over the internet. For the first time in history, the american public has enough information to see through a lot of the bullshit and it's going to accelerate as technology and social information sharing gets even faster and more widespread. Politicians are going to have to become more honest about what the government actually is doing and it's harder to lie about or distort facts when everyone can simply go on the internet and do their own fact checking. We've become more aware that the media doesn't actually inform, it's just rich people telling other rich people to tell the middle class to blame the poor, and that the only truly free media is the internet, which is why the government is trying so hard to control it, under the guise of security and anti-piracy. Go look at a politics classroom, it teaches future politicians how to debate, and how to sell their opinion, never once will you hear the term "peer review" or "statistical significance." Politicians are professional advertisers, not problem solvers. They sell the ideas that their biggest financial backers tell them to, they don't care to, or even understand the concept of looking at the problem, isolating the variables, doing research, engineering a solution, and peer reviewing the solution. The conservatives use god as their biggest marketing tool, religious people are easy to market to because to convince them of something, you don't need proof, and we have a very superstitious populous. If anyone has actually ever read the bible, Jesus was a socialist, never once did he refuse to heal someone because they were too poor, the money changers incident in the bible was him literally rebelling against money controlling his government, he would not have liked a government that could be bought. But even superstitious people are starting to realize that they are being lied to because of all of the information that they have access to. 20 years ago "there is no evidence of evolution" was a valid argument, now people can go on the internet and see wow, there actually is overwhelming evidence, it's driving moderate and educated people away from the republican party, which is now seen as anti-science. The democrats use peace, social help, and science to draw in it's crowd, but it's no better. They understand climate change is our fault, (also, if it's happening, who gives a shit if its our fault or not, it's still a problem) but they aren't actually doing anything to fix it. They talk about peace and while they haven't started any new wars, they aren't exactly reeling the military in even though they say they are. They are just the lesser of two evils. The two party system is no superior to the one party system, both hijack their governments away from the people they are supposed to represent, and they cover up what they are really doing, which they are now finding is really hard to do with modern technology, so instead they pass laws making sharing information illegal. They will execute Edward Snowden to show americans that you shouldn't do what's right if it means undermining the state. They got too comfy with their power, and people with power never willingly give it up.
Information is power, and the people are getting more access to it.
I think the government is probably ██████ ███ ██ ██████ the █████ ███ best thing for us. They know █████ ███ ███████ best ███████ ██ Questioning the government is the ████ ███ █████████ ███ ███████ ███ ██ worst.
I have been very down all day about the news, almost so much that I want to cry. When I came to the West I believed it stood for freedom and equality but some terrible things have happened over that time I have been here that eats away at that belief.
I was born under Communism and in fact my place of birth is run by the dictator lunatic Lukashenko and now I see echoes of such a mindset here.
More and more I think it is not systems but human beings that are the problem. Those with power are dominated by evil thoughts.
This was started under Bush back in the early 2000s and been going on since, why was this a surprise to ANYONE. In these days of technology, how can anyone have any expectation of privacy. You want privacy, get rid of your cell phone and computer. Live in darkness. Google, Micorsoft, among a couple of hundred other corporations are delving deeper into your privacy than the gov't. No, he didn't do the right thing, especially running to the Chinese, he should be executed.
Couldn't have said it better. I agree 100%.