Brother Being a Bastard?

Discussion in 'Sex and Relationships' started by Cope, Sep 2, 2006.

  1. Cope

    Cope New Member

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    This is my first visit, so be gentle. I'm seeking advice about my present situation.

    I'm 26 and back in college, trying not to mess it up this time. Rather than take out an even bigger student loan to help pay for an apartment, my brother (35) offered to let me stay with him and his family (wife and 2 kids 6 and 9). I pay him rent and help out with bills and housework.

    Here's the situation. My brother is a devout Christian. He waited until he was married before he had sex. I'm athiest and I didn't wait. Recently, I found a woman, 24, that I actually liked well enough to start introducting to my family. We've been dating for 3 months so far. So, out of the blue yesterday, he starts giving me a lecture about how he's not going to allow me to have sex in his house. I was willing to discuss it rationally. However, he kept taking the "Moral High Ground" regarding sin and how he wasn't going to allow premarital sex in "his house." I respect his opinion, but a large part of me feels like he's treating me like his child and not his brother. This whole situation, where he's simply stating "do as I say, it's my house and my rules, and it's not open for discussion," is an attitude I don't agree with. I don't like to deal in absolutes.

    I asked him what he thought about if I had already had sex in his house before, but not necessarily with this woman. He told me not to do it again and that if he found out, he'd "kick my ass." WTF?

    I appreciate any correspondance in advance. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.
     
  2. Puss_in_boots

    Puss_in_boots Adminatrix
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    This is a pretty interesting dilemma. I know you love and respect him because he's your brother and all, but his devout Christian sense of morality has taken precedence over his feelings of brotherly affection and loyalty. He feels he has the right, as an older brother and a devout Christian, to impose his set of values upon you, and to judge you, despite the fact (and you should remind him of this) that only God can judge us. It is not his place to be intolerant and judgemental of other people's lifestyles with which he disagrees.

    If I were you I'd move out because I'd find it impossible to live under such intolerant and absolute conditions, and especially under that threat of physical violence, but that's just me. How very Christian of him. :eyes

    I'd remind him that to be Christian is to be Christ-like, which is to be kind and charitible and forgiving and tolerant. If he can't accept that then you should bite the bullet, take another student loan, and get your own place.
     
  3. Krof

    Krof New Member

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    I thought most people put their family before god, I guess some people don't.

    Your options are:
    1. Move out and take a bigger loan, stepping backwards in life, but gaining some self-respect.
    2. Don't have sex and get no good grades because you're horny as hell.
    3. Have sex behind his back and don't tell him about it until you're done with school and moving out.
    4. Debate this issue with him everyday until he kicks you out, thus making this a non-issue

    Myself I would probably go with 4 because I'm a stubborn asshole.
     
  4. pirouette

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    Cope,
    It sounds like it's time to move. As far as your brother being "morally upright"....sounds more like jealousy to me. As Puss stated, it isn't very Christian to be intolerant and to threaten physical violence on someone. A spiritual/religious person would have had a serious conversation showing concern for your well being. And would have shown that he cared about your feelings, your future, as well as your libido. He would have attempted to explain to you the more spiritual side of sex in a marriage.
    A jealous person would just rant and yell and forbid.......
     
  5. Logger

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    Dear Cope,

    Your brother may be a Bastard, or he may totally brainwashed by the Christian Right. He truly may believe he is saving you from an eternity of damnation.

    If your brother has accepted the principles of Abstinence so rigidly, then it may be a waste of time to argue, or even discuss the issue with him.

    How hard would it be, to just say, "OK, I agree, No sex in your house. Your soul is safe."

    Religion is not entirely logical. So trying to discuss religious beliefs logically, is a losing battle.

    Your brother may be remembering parts of some sermon that was emotionally meaningful to him at the time in the past, or in repitition, upon which a number of tennants of his faith are based. Ordinarily, I would say, just reason with the guy.

    Sell your car, buy a van. Find someplace else to have fun. Rent a cheap motel occasionally. Find a rich guy with a weekend house you can use during the week. Pay her roomate to go home for the weekends. Make it work.
     
    #5 Logger, Sep 2, 2006
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2006
  6. Bluesy

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    Like Logger said, religion is not entirely logical. Sometimes it makes no sense whatsoever. You're an atheist, you're a proponent of the religion/logic dichotomy. It's just really, really aggravating to experience it first-hand, I'll bet.

    I hate to say it, but the one who pays the mortgage sets the house rules. No matter how nutso they are. You're just going to have to get creative, which is an age-old college tradition, so welcome to the club! God knows I paid my dues.
     
  7. pirouette

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    Cope,
    You'd think your brother would have laid out all of the rules BEFORE you moved in!
     
  8. Cope

    Cope New Member

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    Yup, pirouette...sounds like he's making shit up as he goes.

    It looks like it's going to be just like high school all over again, sneaking around. You all are right in each regard. All your input has been given w/o passing judgement and I appreciate that. However, I might as well have been debating with a rock in regards to my brother.

    Before we had this talk, if it could be called that, my gf has been over well after dark. Any times we've had sex it's been difficult to keep her quiet. I've done my best to distract her by letting her bite my hand, suck on my fingers, and give her a deep kiss...anything to keep the noise down. It's going to be tough. If she's not screaming, she's giggling, or swearing.

    But, I have been considerate. If my brother's worried about his kids being exposed to it, there's not really much to worry about. In the past, I've waited until everybody else is out of the house. I've stuck to early mornings and late nights. Plus, I'm stuck in the basement which is two floors below any of the main bedrooms.

    Looks like I'm biding my time until I break down and load up the student loans?
     
  9. Joe

    Joe
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    This sounds just like something my older sister would have said to me under those conditions. (She's the outwardly religious one in our family.) I wouldn't argue with him, and I'd play by his rules as long as you're in his house. But I certainly wouldn't be staying in his house for long!

    I think he's wrong trying to control the sex life of a 26-year-old brother, but he apparently has strong convictions and thinks he's "saving" you. Don't let it ruin your family relationship. Just move out when you can. Good luck!
     
  10. John Keel

    John Keel New Member

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    While I sympathize, I'd like to point out that it is his house, and as such, they're his rules to set. None of us like them, but he's absolutely in the right. If you want to live in his house, and you want to do the right thing, don't fuck there.

    All that being said, once you acknowledge that it's the right thing...doing the wrong thing is much more fun, isn't it? If you can't get a subversive, kinky thrill out of fucking in your intolerant brother's house, you aren't trying hard enough. The fact that he'll kick your ass if he catches you is icing on the cake.

    Have fun, and good luck.
     
  11. Rose

    Rose Resident Sexy Grandma
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    Sorry - it's his house.

    This is different circumstance, but same scenario: We allowed our daughter, husband and son to move in with us for a while. This is a non-smoking house (though they were allowed to smoke outside.) They are adults, however, i don't like the smell of stale cigarettes embedded in my furniture, draperies, etc.
    I got pissed. It's my house. They were living totally rent-free, grocery-free, utilities-free.... but couldn't have the courtesy to abide by my wishes. Fine! Find a deal like they have here, where they can smoke indoors.

    Either abide by brother's rules, or find another place to live. He's not telling you not to fuck her (tho, I imagine that he tried) - he did tell you not to fuck her in his home. The 'correctness' of his morality is a non-issue. If you can't afford to move, then you will have to find another place to get it on. Discussing his 'right' to have his convictions is mute.

    There will be many situations in life where you will have to curtail your own personal pleasures for various reasons. It's part of living in a world made up of more than one person. We might not like it, but we never reach an age where we no longer need to accommodate other people's ideals from time to time.

    jmho :rose
     
  12. HerHubby

    HerHubby The SF Poet Laureate
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    SIGH!!! I TRIED to leave this forum, but I just could NOT stay away!! You all come up with some of the GREATEST, most interesting comments and I just HAVE to come back here to see what you say next! You all would have made a great bunch of politicians and/or lawyers, ha, ha!!! (I used to work with a bunch of lawyers and politicans, but I am recovering, ha, ha). I have "fallen in love" with you buncha godless pagans, ha, ha(and I just say that teasingly and affectionately)!! Anyway, as for Cope's brother being a "bastard", ha, ha, I imagine his mother probably would get upset about that! Once my younger brother and I got in a fight near my mother - he called me a "bastard" and I called him a "son of a bitch", we weren't thinking about what we were saying but Mom yelled, "WAIT JUST A MINUTE HERE! I'm MARRIED and I am NOT a DOG!" I thought that she would kill us both!! Anyway, I have to agree with our Sexy Grandma Rose. I am afraid that is IS his brother's house. When I lived with my parents, both before and after reaching age 21 (then the age of majority where I lived - and I lived with them after age 21 for a while because I was trying to finish college and the economy SUCKS where I am from, always has, probably always will), it was understood that I lived according to THEIR RULES (not to mention that, although a basically gentle and kind man, my father was strong as an ox and could have whipped my butt good at any time - but I still loved him dearly and greatly miss him since he passed away in 1996). Also, as a Christian (cut me some slack here Krof ;> ), I am aware that the Scriptures do teach (just explaining not trying to convince you) that God loves us all dearly yet there are some BEHAVIORS (not people, BEHAVIORS) God does not like and the REASON is that some behaviors CAN have very bad consequences for us in various ways. Also, in the USA, as well as in some other nations, so far, we have freedom OF religion. People are free to believe or not believe. Of course, there are some nations in which if you don't do as they say, in relgious matters, you could end up missing body parts or dead. So at least if someone does not agree with their relatives or peers, they can go elsewhere and live according to the dicates of their conscience - more or less - in our nation and in some others (that's one thing that intrigues me about SF - the international participants, awesome). Anyway, from a purely secular, legal stand point, if one is living with relatives and getting some sort of privileges which one might not necessarily get in a landlord-renter relationship, laws in your state and locality might possibly come down on the side of your brother. If you got an apartment on your own, of course, local and state laws would limit what the landlord could govern about your behavior in the privacy of your apartment as long as you were not violating any federal, state or local laws. If I were you, I would respect my brother's religious views, whether or not I agreed with him, and either have sex in a motel somewhere, if that's what you want to do, or move out and get my own apartment. If it was YOUR house and your brother lived with you then HE would need to accept YOUR views, but the situation is you living with him in HIS house so, I have to come down on the side of your brother, speaking from an entirely secular viewpoint without regard to whether or not his religious views are correct. If you had a contract with him, then things might be negotiated differently, but I kind of doubt that he's gonna enter into a contract with you. If you want cheaper, probably oughta just go along with your brother. If you demand doing your own thing, hey, I'd get an apartment if I were you. sorry this is so long, but I used to work with a bunch of lawyers and politicians and people in those fields NEVER write anything briefly (legal briefs are NEVER actually brief, ha, ha). Maybe I should get a therapist, ha, ha!! ;> I hope that things work out for you whatever you do. At times I have been an older student, too, and I know that can be a strange feeling (at one point I was working full time and taking a full time evening course load - I thought I was gonna have a heart attack at one point, sheeze)!
     
  13. Motley Fan

    Motley Fan New Member

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    Cope,

    I'm going to second most all of what Herhubby had to say, especially the whole it's his house, his rules deal.

    On the religion deal... As a Christian, and a former religous righter, I can understand where your brother is coming from. The reason I am a fromer religious righter is a result of more understanding of the essence or core of Christian theology.

    IMO, there is no basis for Christians to impose Christian morality on nonChristians, unless there is another reason. I think it is legitimate for your brother to place the restrictions on activity under his roof because the activity is sin under Christian theology and he should not condone such activity under his roof. Having said that, I can tell you, though it may be something different that what you would be doing, he commits some sin in his house every day. So he is not better than you and he should not act or feel like he is better than you.

    There is a lot of ignorance in the Church, much of it has crept in over the last 100 - 150 years in the USA. Today, many Christians would find themselves lumped in with the Pharises of Jesus' day - that is expecting salvation because of how they live (works righteousness) instead of expecting salvation because of Who their savior is.

    I will have to disagree with Krof's statement regarding the place of family vs God though. As a Christian, a believer is required to put God first above all things, including family.
     
  14. Bluesy

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    Oh, hear, hear. I think it would make for an exceptionally sticky situation if your adult kids were the ones who didn't want to play by the rules. I think it's admirable that you were willing to enforce your rules; courageous, really, when I look around at all the parents I know who let their kids push them around.
     
  15. Lusty Dreams

    Lusty Dreams New Member

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    This may be a little late, but I agree w/ Rose 110%. He is telling you not to have sex in his house. But didn't tell you that you couldn't have sex. There is a difference.
     
  16. teamster145

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    I would just like to say that is pretty intolerent of you to not accept his rules while living in his house. As far as living with absolutes this world is full of them, religious or not, so I would try to get used to them if I were you.
     
  17. BustHer

    BustHer New Member

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    Cope with it

    I understand your feelings of being dominated by an older brother as I have been down that road. The one thing I havent seen in this lengthy thread is any mention of your brothers children. I think that he and his wife are probably trying to raise their kids in a christian home and want them to share the same values they have in their lives. Like no sex before there married, how can you expect them to allow it to occure openly in their home? I understand your need for sex but have to agree with others here that you should find another place for sex, hotel g/fs place or the back seat of your car. Please keep in mind that family is the tie that binds us together and a few years down the line your brother will still be your brother and you will still want and need sex, g/fs come and go but family is forever in most cases though not all. Acceptence is something that is a must for all in life and you must in this case if you plan to continue living under your brothers roof accept the fact that he is not willing to compromise on this and learn to live with it until you finish school or find another place to live. I do wish you the best of luck in your sexual journey and your realationship with your brother, dont let something like this ruin your brotherhood, if you loose it sometimes its impossible to get it back. Ask yourself is it worth a life long seperation or at a minimum years of bad feelings between you two, weigh things carefully family tears are never easy to repair.:bow All bow to the ladies for they are what we desire most....
     
  18. Bella

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    I agree with Rose & Her Hubby!! Since you are in "his house" you should respect "his rules'!! There are many places to have sex if you can't afford to move out just yet!!

    There are cars (doesn't necessarily have to be inside the car either), elevators, linen closets, and when you get a few extra $$ - take her to a hotel!
    Use your imagination!
    Bella
     
  19. Dreama

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    Yeah, I have a bit of experience with stuff like this. Although I have no brother hanging over me and imposing christianity upon me, I do live in a college dorm with a goddamned visitation policy in our first semester. We aren't allowed to have anyone of the opposite sex in our dorm until spring rolls around. Urghhh! So, I have to follow the rules and be creative. Sometimes, we get to get hotels and stuff with the little money we have. I mean, I feel sex deprived a lot, but it could be worse. So, get creative.
     
  20. Rose

    Rose Resident Sexy Grandma
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    "CREATIVITY"! That's the ticket!
    When you don't "own" the premises.... you have to make due with what you have!
    And it will add a 'catipult' to you creating your own guidelines. (But you gotta "Own The Property"... get the picture?) :shifty