Break ups

Discussion in 'Sex and Relationships' started by astridaku, Aug 28, 2005.

  1. astridaku

    astridaku New Member

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    I am sure many people speak about that all the time. Me personally after being with the same guy for almost 10 years it finished, well it took me a few hard working month to put all the pain by the side and keep on with my life. Last week I had a few problems with him, and our marriage was mentioned again and all the pain I thought I manage to put by the side came right up to my skin again. Anyway I am telling you all of this cause I want to trust guys again, and I don't really know how, I do date a lot, but then the guys I meet will tell you everything you want to hear to get you in bed.
     
  2. Logger

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    Dear Astridaku,

    Thank you for your thougthful post. There are several threads in SF on lies, and how to get behind words to understand the realitries of the truth.

    Would you like to give an exaple of what a guy has told you, and how you might figure out what he really means?

    Pamela Anderson was on Larry King. She said it was good to have a crush on a guy. Is there any guy you think is hot, that you might be willing to discuss how you are receiving the signals?

    There are systems of understanding the truth, taht can be studied. I believe it was Howard Hughes that found great insight from learing about the dynamics of deception from a handwriting analysis expert.

    Can you list out dsiciplines of study taht are realted to understanding human deception, denial and trickery?

    Any systems you could study? Any experts you know? Any schools that are accessible to you?

    Since I suspect that you are an attractive woman, it may be that you have a particualr challenge, as more tricksters may come on to you. A woman who is less attractive may have less deception to handle, because anyone that comes on to her, is intersted in her spirit, not her body.

    How would you go about figuring out who you can trust?

    Blessings
     
    #2 Logger, Aug 29, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2005
  3. Logger

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    Dear Astridaku,

    Here is a link to a neat post on a new section marriagebuilders. com, for Divorced people starting to date again. This post asks, when can you expect exclusivity to begin in a dating relationship? When should goals/instrests for relationships be first discussed? How can you find out if casual sex a strong habit with the person you might be thinking of dating?

    http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2773894&an=0&page=1#2773894

    Blessings
     
  4. astridaku

    astridaku New Member

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    Thanks I will check the link. And men come cause of my boobs and not my brains lol.
     
  5. Logger

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    Dear Astridaku,

    You can dress to accentuate your cleavage, or to make your jiggling less noticable. When going out to where you might meet guys, you might taek the trouble to make yourself less of a bombshell.

    I have faileed, so far, to interest you in a system of understanding human deception. I would feel better if you would make a list of what systems might be available for you to study, perhaps what mentors are available to you for which system, and how you would approach studying, in an easy, productive manner.

    I have decided to study NLP, Neuro Linguistic Programming. I searched eBay, and came up with thousands of references. I orderd some DVD Lectures.

    Blessings
     
  6. Logger

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    Dear Astridaku,

    You can dress to accentuate your cleavage, or to make your jiggling less noticable. When going out to where you might meet guys, you might take the trouble to dress so as to make yourself less of a bombshell.

    I have faileed, so far, to interest you in a system of understanding human deception. I would feel better if you would make a list of what systems might be available for you to study, perhaps what mentors are available to you for which system, and how you would approach studying, in an easy, productive manner.

    I have decided to study NLP, Neuro Linguistic Programming. I searched eBay, and came up with thousands of references. I orderd some DVD Lectures. What Region Code is your DVD player? I saw some Universal Region Code DVD players available on eBay.

    Blessings
     
  7. astridaku

    astridaku New Member

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    No, you have not failed, I listen to what people have to say and then I do my own thinking and decide what to do, not always right, but it is fair for me. You know the other day I was speaking with my best friend, and I will tell you exactly like I told her, theory it is very good but doesn't always work, some times the feeling are irrational, like some of the feelings I have and there is nothing you can do to control it, the answer it is not to suppress yourself it to learn to cohabite if you want to call it that with your feeling rationales or not. All that process take a lot of understanding of yourself and help to accept the fact that people are no what we want them or expect them to be, and when someone cross you, it is not your fault and there is nothing that you can do to change the fact, then again I am rambling sorry
     
  8. Logger

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    Dear Astridaku,

    Thank you for re-assuring me that I have not totally failed to convince you to look at theroies that explain human deception. Please post back with any progress you make, as I have many ideas for you, and expereinces, but it is usually best that a person develop their own path. We can discuss pros and cons of various paths, as you discover one or more.

    Rambling is not always bad. I have posted titles of a thread as a RANT. Meaning that mostly I am expressing feelings of frustration, rather than a logically thought out question for people to give advice. Your Thread title "Break Ups", gives clear indication that strong feelings are involved and RANTING is to be expected. You have not really ranted to the extent that your Thread Title indicates is appropriate. This is your thread. Express your feelings a fully as there is emotion left to express.

    Feelings should not be denied to yourself. You should be honest with yourself, about how you feel. You should have a trusted support partner with whom you can be honest about at least certain types of issues, and have enough support partners, that can cover all your issues, so you can be honest with at least one support partner, and yourself, about any issue.

    Your EXPRESSION or DISCLOSURE of your feelings, is a matter of conscious choice, in most circumstances. I suggest that you can EVALUATE a situation first, before deciding whether to express your feelings. Part of the EVALUATION is to envison your desired OUTCOME. You are a movie DIRECTOR. As a Movie Director, you are determining what ENDING you will choose for your short movie, of CAUSE AND EFFECT.

    AFTER you have selected an ending for your short cuase and effect movie, THEN you assemble your characters and lines, that will lead you to the DESIRED OUTCOME.

    You can MOTIVATE your characters, in your movie, by explaining DESIRED OUTCOMES for their actions/inactions. You can direct or COACH them to follow the DEISRED OUTCOMES that play into the ENDING you have chosen. Live Happily Ever After, for instance, as an ending. Whether you express some, or al,l of your feelings about an issue, depends on how that affects the other characters, and their motivating factors, that will lead them to your disired outcome.

    So I will take issue with your statement from your above post:

    "...help to accept the fact that people are no (not) what we want them or expect them to be, and when someone cross (crosses) you, it is not your fault and there is nothing that you can do to change the fact,"


    FIRST: You can have a system by which to ealuate a person's integrity and character. Handwriting analysis, Astrology, NLP, Palmestry, Silva Method, Scientology, Psychology, Voice truth/lie detector phone devices, etc.

    SECOND: You can let the person know about your expectations and your integrity. The extent to which your are willing to provide exclusivity, for instance. First Kiss, First Petting, First Date, First Love Making, Engagement, Marriage? Your communication of your reliability for your exclusivity to a Boy Friend, may be an important factor, in what standard BF aplies for his advances in your dating/relationships.

    THIRD: What is the level of your skills at habit building? Humans are creatures of expections and habits. What motivating factors did you fail to emphaisze in your last relationship, that could have added motivation for your partner to be a better Lover for you? What motivating factors have you listed out for your currently targeted Mr. Right? Who is your Motivational Planning Partner?

    I listened to an hour of an NLP disc yesterday morning with my Telephone Coach on the line, I have won 5 more NLP disks on eBay auction. Do you have a Universal Zone DVD player? Have you ever searched NLP on eBay? I am taking my wife to lunch, in a few hours, and I have a list of outcomes, movie endings, that I want her to accept as good, and I have a number of habits I want her to change, to make those outcomes happen. Please wish me luck.


    Blessings
     
    #8 Logger, Sep 12, 2005
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2005
  9. astridaku

    astridaku New Member

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    I am at work now, so I don't really have much time, but tonight when I get home I will re read all the thread again. Yesterday I went to my first meeting with the divorce lawyer and she sent me to a shirk hahahaha, she said I have to deal with the pain and the anger this divorce is causing me if I don't want it to affect my son (as against his father) in the future and I think she is right, cause I don't want to get my sweet dear son in the problems between his father and myself. Anywhy tonight I will reread everything and get back to you, thanks, you sound like a very wise person. And I barely watch TV and or DVD, so I have no idea if my DVD is universal or not. But I think Israel where I live is zone 2 or 3.
     
  10. astridaku

    astridaku New Member

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    I reread the link you sent me, thanks so much, I will read more later on, sound sad but for now I gave up on love, for my own, not in general, I do believe in love, but I don't know if I am willing to risk myself again.
     
  11. Logger

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    Dear Astridaku,

    I have coached couples on the internet toward getting back together. Some have gotten back together.

    I do not recall why you are getting a divorce. Could you give me a link if you already explained it?

    The goal of keeping your son from getting involved in Right and Wrong judgements, and resulting disappointments, is certainly a highly ethical goal. However, the chances of achieving that result can only be done by getting back together with H. Divorce almost always means the child will dish out blame to one or more parents.


    MARRIAGE HELP BOOKS - SITES

    'How to stubbornly refuse to make yourself miserable about anything, yes anything' by Albert Ellis, he talks about people who 'awfulize' things.

    Books on doing divorce with minimal negative impact on the family:

    Divorce Casualties; Preventing Parental Alienation by Douglas Darnell.

    Mom's House, Dad's House, by Isolina Ricci.

    Catholics Views on Marriage: Catholic Views on Marriage http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARRIAGE/MORMAR.TXT

    Website: divorcebusting.com, MICHELE WEINER DAVIS, 1-800-664-2435 Michelle Weiner Davis, 1-800-664-2435, 180's http://www.divorcebusting.com/

    MB Forum 180 Degree Divorce Busters List MB Thread on 180 Degree Divorce Busters http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000476;p=0


    Stop Divorce Website
    Stop Divorce website
    http://www.stopyourdivorcebook.com/

    Divorce is nearly always based on the belief that one partner will not change in an important way. Who will not change in what way in your Marriage/Divorce? If you lookat at NLP, you will see that Change is simple.

    Thanks for recognizing that I am smart. I have helped some individuals and couples. My problem comes in applying good sense to my own marriage.

    Ideas?
     
    #11 Logger, Sep 13, 2005
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2005
  12. astridaku

    astridaku New Member

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    In Spanish we say "en casa de herrero martillo de palo" hahaha, that i don't really know how to traslate it but it means do what i say and not what i do. i am not Catholic so that link I am sorry but I will pass, the rest I will check. Why I am getting a divorce? Well lets see, my ex have problems with the bottle and I did not like him and begged him to stop, and also fight him in that (explaining him that it has to come from him and not from me), sex was never a problem, from the little you can see I am very open and willing (more than him even some times) well, apparently he found someone that will sit with him and drink and for sure not bitch about the drinking. he has an affair, and he didn't even hide it, she even use to tall him at any time of the day even when he was home, and he promised to stop when we found out I was pregnant he swear he will stop with it, but he did not, so at the end 2 month into my pregnacy I told him to leave the house, he was cheatting on me with her already for 2 or more years so I had to put and end to it. Look it pains me a lot and I do still love some of the things in him, he has so many goos qualities. But I won't be able to forgive him, he promised to many times that he will stop with that relationship and he didn't a another 1000 little things that happened regarding that. I though a lot about it, but there is no way I could go back to him, the idea to get in bed with him is unthinkable, again me talking too much
     
  13. Logger

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    Dear Astridaku,

    I suggest that for the sake of your son you consider several things I am going to say. Please get advice on what I am telling you, that your son will hate one or more of his parents, for some periods of time, if you get a divorce.

    Post along with me, and let us explore how to build a successful marriage.

    HUSBAND'S LIES:
    We have discussed methods available to understand people's lies. I am not asking you to trust your husband. I am suggesting ther are some control levers that you have failed to pull

    HUSBAND'S DRINKING:
    Drinking is a habit for him. Habits can be changed.

    HURT FEELINGS:
    Your feelings are hurt, and whenever you think of your husband you get hurt again. You have the power to put aside your feelings of hurt, and focus on the present and the future. Available Self Control methods are more than andequate for you.

    SEX WITH HUSBAND:
    Sex is not the first step to re-building. H needs to fulfill a certain set of your conditions. You need to clearly define what he needs to do to end your request for a divorce. Promising is not going to be adequate. You need him in some program and stop drinking. Reference: Dobson TOUGH LOVE.

    IDEALS OF LOVE:
    My ideals were that if a woman loved me, that she would magically start being fathful to me. I now see Love differently. Honor and Fidelity are important to me, and I need to take some rsponsibllity for managing my spouse's temptations. I need to monitor myu spouse's feelings, and make adjustments to better achieve fidelity. Fidelity needs to be managed. Not Expected.

    HUSBAND'S DRINKING:
    There are many programs for stopping drinking. Tell your husband you want to give him a chance to get sober, to see what he is doing, before you divorce him. Agree on what program he can particpate. Check his particpation.

    OW Other Woman:
    Create some vison of your superiority over OW, that works for you. You and H have a child, so his duty to you is superior to his duty to her. Take a righteous attitude. You may not be Catholic, but there are rigteous religious principles, that describe the spritual concpets supporting marriage and your rights, on the Catholic website i gave you. Nearly All religions respect marriage. There were some righteous concepts of why you are annoited by God, to be sujperior to any OW on the Planet Earth. You need total disdain for all Other Women, but you also need to be peaceable about it. You are protected by the spiritual world against OW. Do not give her any consideration, other than being civil.

    Make a plan, post it here. PM if you want privacy.

    Post Back.
     
  14. Logger

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    Demand Letter to H

    Duplicate Post
     
  15. Logger

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    Demand Letter to H

    Draft ot Demand Letter to H

    Dear H,

    As co-parents of our son, I am suggesting that a divorce will cause son to often ask,"Why do other kids live with BOTH parents?"

    You have hurt me, and I am sure you have your side of the story for our Son. Our Son will blame each of us to varying degrees, as he matures and forms his own understanding of Life and Responsiblities. Son may end up hating one or more of us at various periods of his life.

    I am pausing now, before proceeding with Divorce, to ask you to change from being a drunken, cheating liar. There are many programs for helping with Alcohol abuse, Character Development and Self Discipline. Please let me know what program you expect to use to stop drinking, and a date by which you expect to be dry.

    I further demand that you stop seeing other women. Since this promise has been made and broken repeatedly, I will ask for further assurances that you have stopped cheating, once you are dry.

    You have hurt me deeply, over and over, and I will try to put my hurt aside, when you have sufficiently shown me you are dry and can be trusted.

    I would be interested in receiving a copy of a NO CONTACT letter from you to All Other Women.

    Please show me, and your son, some Character.

    If there are habits you would like me to change, please let me know how I can better accommodate your personality.

    I am not seeking a divorce because of a desire to marry anyone else.

    Blessings
     
  16. kbate

    kbate New Member

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    On a lighter note, if you went lesbian breakups are normally handled by just moving your bag to the next bedroom with your new girlfriend, the old one sleeps alone or with the girl she has been cheating with.

    Straights spend so much time agonizing it is just silly.
     
  17. Logger

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    Kbate, YOU ARe Great. I love it. Why in the world did I not think of Turning Gay as an option for Astridaku?

    IN FACT, this thread should be under the Gay Section., as a list of reasons for women to turn Gay. AT LEAST post a Link there, to this thread.
     
  18. Logger

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    Dear Arisdaku,

    Letter to son, for later:

    Dear Son,

    You are now X years old. You seem to be struggling with your feeings about the divorce between your father and I. I have tried to smooth over the feelings, so that you could have the most support possible from your Dad. I have deliberately withheld details of my attempts to re-establsih the marriage, before divorce, so that you would have more wisdom when your are older, now, than previously, when you were younger, and might have mis-understood some issues. However, I feel that I deserve your respect, as I feel that I put forth a substantial effort to try to save the marriage.

    Attached is a letter, I addressed to your father, when you were one year old. I held off filing for a divorce, so that he could sober up, get righteous with the Synagogue and Rabbies, and prepare for counseling to regain my trust, to re-establish the marriage. Your father

    A.Did nothing
    b. Tried but Failed to get sober and stop philandering.
    C. further explanation.

    I do want you and your father to have a positive relationship, but I also want you to know that I am an honorable woman; That I deserve your respect for trying to work things out with your father, to attempt to re-establish a broken marriage, for your sake, and the family honor.

    Astridaku, Your Loving Mom.
     
  19. Logger

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    Dear Astridaku,


    Some people who drink are fully truthful, trustworthy, and reasonably faithful spouses. Most people who drink are more trustworthy, truthful and faithul to their spouses, when they are sober.

    How much does H drink, How often? What are his motivting factors to drink? What is he nervous about, that drinking gives him relief? What issues is he in denial over?

    What are H's drinking patterns? Breakfast, Lunch and dinner? Evening hour activities and drinking schedule? Does he sneak around with hiding bottles?

    H has show that he is untrustworthy when drinking, so your believing him again, when he is still drinking, seems to be misplaced trust. Can you find an adviser who is familiar with people who are untrustworthy when they are drinking? You need to have someone to monitor him, to let you know when he has actually stopped drinking, so you can think of trusting him again. A no contact letter when he is still drinking is probably worthless.

    I have advised you to find a system of truthfulness evaluation. Perhaps, for H, all you need is a breathalizer. I bought a brethalizer for $200.00. My son accepted my dare to test one time. Since then I look at him to make the offer to test again, and I think that my keeping a breathalizer ready in the drawer, at least helps to reduce his drinking.

    Blessings
     
  20. Rose

    Rose Resident Sexy Grandma
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    ??? Okay. Now I'm really confused. I thought sexual orientation was inherent, and not "chosen", or something one 'turns into'.