Abstinence Only In Schools

Discussion in 'General Sex Discussion' started by jódame, Feb 8, 2007.

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  1. jódame

    jódame New Member

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    I'm young, a fairly recent graduate of high school, and it really bothers me that teachers are required to push this abstinence-only curriculum. I completely respect anyone's decision about virginity, as long as it's well-researched and appropriate to an individual's situation. I don't like the idea that kids are scared away from sex, or misinformed about it. I see it in action, too. I actually had to inform my sister (4 years my senior and very intelligent) that using two condoms is, in fact, less safe than using one. That scares me, because it means this kind of misinformation has been taught for years. Isn't it time we took the stigma out of sex, at least long enough to teach kids how to make informed decisions? I mean, I learned more from Cosmo than I did from trained professionals.
     
  2. Dreama

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    I totally agree. I'm a freshman in college, and having just been delivered from the high school scene, I am utterly disgusted with the abstinance only education. I don't think that telling kids that having sex makes them bad is a really effective way to go. We got no real education until the second to last day of our senior year, when they finally had a guest speaker come in and talk about how to use a condom. Sad, huh? Especially with all the pregnant teenagers in the audience.
     
  3. issiewantsto

    issiewantsto New Member

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    Kids definitely shouldn't be told that having sex makes them bad. There are too many emotions and avoidance of responsibility surrounding the subject, so adults go with the easy response, abstinence, and don't realize it can end up screwing up someone worse than telling all. Evolution and natural selection are taught in schools (mostly, sorry Georgia), so why not inform the kids that these facts are powerful forces that will make them want to have sex. It's simply a FACT about how the body is built. In health class they can explain various consequences if they want, just like they do with high-fat content foods or smoking, and prevention. Present things as facts: if there is an exchange of body fluids, this can happen; if a person has sex, these hormones are released and this emotion may occur, etc., etc. It all comes down to fear, and that's going to remain for a long time, so it's up to adults to educate their own kids (when the kid will listen) and kids to educate themselves from a variety of resources.
     
  4. melicious

    melicious The Old Maid
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    I absolutely agree. I wish I could be part of a program that teaches sex ed to high schoolers, but I live in an area where that is not going to be accepted. Instead, I get to counsel the poor teens who learned on their own, and ended up with an infection, or an STD, or a baby.
     
  5. HerHubby

    HerHubby The SF Poet Laureate
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    This is a reality check kindly yet firmly submitted. Sorry, you all probably won't be happy with me, however, I have to come down on the side of abstinence. Although I have various other sources of information and insight, as I have shared in other threads, my wife is a Child Protective Services Social Worker. She does not violate confidentiality, however, in a general manner, I have heard from her for many years now about how many problems young people having sex before they are ready, or even after they are ready, often creates. Diseases being spread, trauma and damage from abortions (some of them fairly routinely get "botched", the procedure can be very traumatic for some girls and women and can cause medical problems now and later in life not to mention psychological problems for those who initially dealt with it well - been aware of such things happening many times) are routine occurances. Some young people having babies do take responsibility and try to be responsibile parents but many don't or are just not able to parent well. Many, many social workers, mental health people and law enforcement officers end up dealing with various situations which arise from these sorts of things. People try to minimize the importance of sex, try to make it out to be only a recreational activity. Sorry, it's NOT - it has profound psychological effects on people, whether they admit or realize it or not, and even if disease is not spread or unwanted pregnancies don't result in all cases, people's feelings often get hurt, problems result and so forth. Even if we totally did away with the social workers, mental health and law enforcement intervention, resulting problems from a totally sexually open society, both immediate and long term would be horrendous and our society might not be able to survive - or we would end up becoming a far more draconian society one way or the other (either like some third world nations or like some communist or fascist nations have been). Further, our bodies do not fully mature until around age 25 (if you get pregnant before then, your body is competing with the fetus to grow) and research is finding that human beings, under the best circumstances, don't fully mature emotionally, mentally, until around age 23 - it's later in some people and can go longer if someone has been emotionally traumatized at some step in their development. The body often heals faster than the mind - the mind can, with help, eventually heal, however it can take a long time. Also, there are people out there who want to be able to have sexual access to young teenagers and even children without hindrance from the children or society and that creates problems and damage to people as well. There is also a HUGE pornography and sex industry out there, they want access to the younger people as well. If they could, they would even bring about sex slavery in order to maximize their profits - and that happens in some other nations. Former President Clinton fired Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders for daring to suggest that young people be encouraged and taught, if needed, to masturbate. I think that Dr. Elders was RIGHT! When I was in my teens sometimes I badly wished that I could have sex with a women (I was always attracted to women who were in their 20s, 30s or 40s), however, I only masturbated. Looking back, I am glad that I did only masturbate because I was just NOT ready for a sexual relationship with a girl my age then or a woman. Anyway, the way things are nowadays, if I was in my teens or early 20s, I would just be masturbating as needed and working hard to complete my education or training which would help me to get into a career in which I was interested and which I could use to support myself well. There will be LOADS of time for sex later on in life. I would also, when I was ready for sex, be only interested in a relationship with one other person in which we were faithful to each other. There is just too much disease risk and too many complicated problems when sexual relationships involve other people. You all will have to do and think as you like. I can only tell you how I feel about it and share what I have observed and heard about. Here endeth the sermon assuming anybody was able to put their hormones on hold long enough to read it.
     
  6. jódame

    jódame New Member

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    I realize what you're saying, HerHubby, and I respect your opinion greatly. You chose abstinence because it was right for you. I chose to be sexually active with the man that I love and plan to spend the rest of my life with. Were something to happen to change those plans, the sex would not be as much as an issue as the love I will have lost. I have no regrets whatsoever about my decision, because I informed myself beforehand and made a mature decision based on my own personal situation. I agree that each person's "right time" is different. However, it is a fact of life that you will not stop young people, or any people, from having sex. The abstinence-only curriculum taught in schools does not stress the emotional factor of sex. It focuses on scare tactics that either affect a person's lifelong views on sex or cause kids to ignore the lessons...because, frankly, some of them are bullshit. Having sex doesn't make someone a bad person. That's obvious. So what I'm saying is that kids need to be taught to make wise decisions regarding both physical and emotional safety. To ignore the issue is not to fix it.
     
  7. Elvis

    Elvis Member

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    I'm not saying it was better in my schooldays, but there was no sex education or even biology lessons. Not many kids had parents who bothered either, so we made do and groped our own way through life, trying to ignore the fear instilled by older kids that women's vagina's had teeth!!!! LOL

    We still mostly grew up to be responsible, level headed people.

    Condoms were something we were to bashful to ask for in the pharmacy, or even the barbers, so it was bareback and fingers crossed! That's if one was lucky enough to find a girl who 'put out!'

    Shit, I don't like long posts!
     
  8. doberman

    doberman New Member

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    our teacher didnt really focus on technical questions, rather about being comfortable with the one you're with, taking things slowly and as they feel..

    a good starting point i believe, better than those diagrams and stuff that was in the books.. and to be honest, everyone pretty well knew how things looked like!

    and to become a good or better lover, it needs a lot of practice, some experiences..

    i always say, one wouldnt buy a second-hand car without a testdrive.. and one might has to do more than one in order to see what car suits one best..

    i'd hate to be raised in some kind of bible-belt surroundings.. church and stuff never did anything for me, but thats just my opinion.. i only have one life, i'd hate to lay down for dying and had to say: "if i only did this or that!"..
     
  9. cbrmale

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    I come from a country which is sexually liberal, and early teen children are given a full program of sex education around the age of 12 or 13. This is followed up by more advanced sex education around the age of 14 or 15.

    Herhubby, I do have to take issue with your post. We are a sexually open society, and we have one-half the STD infection rate of the United States, and one-third the teen pregnancy rate. There are two theories as to why the US model isn't working, and the more liberal European / Australasian model is.

    One - if you say something is bad and wrong and shouldn't be done, then people by nature will do it. If you say it is right and fine if you and your partner are both comfortable, then they don't seem to do it!

    Two - children in developed countries outside the US have the information and the resources (example, condoms are available free of charge in high schools) to have sex and not get STDs or fall pregnant.

    A further factor which may be in our advantage is the age of consent is 16, as it is in most of the world. The median age for first intercourse is around 16 in many countries, including the US, so it is important that the legal system reflects reality.

    Beyond my two teen childrens very explicit sex education (I saw their materials), my wife and I have both given them more general relationship and sex advice, and we leave them both to make up their minds whenever they feel comfortable.

    So for those who are concerned about the US push for abstinence, take a look at what the rest of the world is doing, and also look at the relative success of liberal sex education.
     
  10. HerHubby

    HerHubby The SF Poet Laureate
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    Of course, I understand those of you above who responded to me. I guess that my main concerns are 1) that nobody feel pressured into sex (don't know about over there but that happens a LOT here) especially before they are ready, 2) that people stop spreading sexually transmitted diseases (that's wonderful about Australia's rates), 3) that when one is married (no matter how that is defined) that one is expected to be faithful to one's spouse and to either not get married or get a divorce before having other partners, 4) that sexual predators - child molesters, rapists, etc. are stopped, 5) that no child or young person - or older teenagers or adults for that matter - is sexually abused, 6)that the rate of unwanted pregnancies and abortions be greatly reduced world wide, 7) that sex be enjoyed by those who want it (like me for instance, ha, ha ;>) yet that it not be so "in your face" and the "be all and end all" that it is often times. I am delighted to learn about the Australia std and pregnancy rates. I just feel that world wide we could do much better and get rid of AIDS and other STDs even without vaccines and medicines although those should continue to be developed. Also, although, again, my wife does not break confidentiality, I have, for the past THIRTY YEARS been aware that too many people are hurting each other including sexual ways and especially hurting children. I just feel that as a society, as a world, that we can do a LOT better than that and still enjoy sex. Not trying to ruin anybody's good time, just don't want people to be hurt and infected. I kind of CARE about other people - not saying you all don't, just saying that there are people out there who don't give a diddly darn (or, as they say on SF, a "DAYUM" ;>, ha, ha) about anything but THEIR pleasure, their needs and desires without caring whether they hurt anybody else. We just gotta do better than that!

    By the way, I will admit, as I have elsewhere on these threads, that when I was a teenager and in my early 20s before I got married (got married at age 27 by the way) I was one HORNY rascal. However, for various reasons, I stuck with masturbation and did not risk STDs and unwanted pregnancies, etc. Even so, if an older woman indicated that she wanted to establish a sexual relationship with me (a faithful relationship) or even if a group of older women had wanted to do so, I would have fallen into their arms and been their "sex toy" if that's what they had wanted. That never happened, however, sometimes, nowadays, I am aware that, in my home area, there might have been some women who would have been interested in doing that with me, but we somehow never got together. Maybe it was for the best, I don't know at this point. I will say that I wish that at least some adult, preferably a woman, had taken me aside and told me "it's OK to masturbate" because I was doing it frequently and feeling very guilty about it and young people should NOT feel guilty about that! Also, when I had my first sexual experience with a female college classmate, with her strong encouragement that we do so, after we had sex, she got up, still naked (it was night so nobody could see her) went to the window of the hotel room and, looking heavenward, prayed for forgiveness for her sin. That happened the second and last time we had sex too. While I felt compassion for her, I also felt confusion and hurt too. So, anyway, I guess that all this is a "hot issue" and our society is going to take quite a while to get it all worked out. For the time being, I would at least go so far as encourage young people to masturbate, if they need to or even if they just want to, and to concentrate on finishing their education. Future employers (unless, of course, one works in the sex industry) won't care in the least if one has had sex or not (although they might care if one has an incurable STD which might drive their insurance costs up), but they WILL care about one's school and college grades and that one has some needed skills for their business or agency. I would say to any young person that there will be LOTS of time for sex and relationships after you are established in your career. I don't say any of this in a hurtful or domineering way, just gently, kindly sharing these perspectives. If anybody doesn't agree, I respect that.
     
  11. cbrmale

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    Herhubby,
    1. I know people get pressured into sex, but my children and 15 and 17 and through them at least I know it isn't a major issue. Perhaps it is because our sex education is not 'just say no' but 'say yes when you are comfortable with each other'.

    Monogamy is an interesting point, we are not programmed for monogamy, and about 40% of married men in the Us and 30% of married women in the US will be unfaithful. Such high percentages, and my understanding of psychology, lead me to believe that while monogamy is preferable, it is not an easy thing to achieve.

    I agree with you on child molestation, teen pregnancy, abortion and the other issues. In my country, the abortion rate is too high, and I would prefer more couples taking more responsibility on birth control before the event. In most cases, abortions are within de-facto married couples. We do have a lowish rate of teen pregnancy, so at least that is working.

    I am the opposite of you, I had about fifty or sixty partners prior to marriage. I think I may be a little older than you, although not by much. In any case in my time before I got married, you asked a girl if she was on the pill or not. Yes, no condom, no use a condom. We didn't worry about sexually transmitted diseases prior to AIDS in the mid-80's, and (perhaps not surprisingly) I never had one! All those partners, so much unprotected sex...

    By the way, because we aren't a Christian country, none of my partners prayed for forgiveness! We are probably less promiscuous today as a nation, because the never-ending round of partners is an empty thing and I think younger people realise that a succession of medium-term sexual friends is more satisfying than the sort-term casual sex we once did.
     
  12. doberman

    doberman New Member

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    how contradictory is this? having sex twice and then send prayers to heaven.. to stay on the psychological side, this is highly schizophrenic.. to say the least!

    thats what a fucked-up education gives you, feeling guilty and ashamed of what you really want.. this is no option!

    i never felt guilty, wether for masturbating, nor for fucking around. i havent raped or molested anybody as of today either! now, since european, our sexual education was pretty open as well as you can read further up..
     
  13. HerHubby

    HerHubby The SF Poet Laureate
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    Yeah, one thing I am learning, as I read posts here, is that things are often way different in other nations than they are here in the United States and even way different in some regions of our nation than they are in other regions. Never fails to amaze me! However, I am grateful for the insights that you all provide to me about your nations and regions. And please understand me, I am NOT criticizing you all - I have actually come to like several of the posters here a great deal and care about you all. I'm just still wrapping my mind around all this, learning and hoping that whatever is best for all concerned will happen.

    And, yeah, while I cared about the first woman I had sex with and hope that she is happy wherever she may be now (I lost touch with her years ago and have no idea where she is now), that first sexual relationship was really weird to say the least. Also, you all gotta realize that I was raised in the middle of what is called "The Bible Belt" in the United States. Now, whether you believe it or not, there WERE some GOOD things about that in some ways. Some of the people there were as good as you could ever hope to find and wonderful friends and neighbors. On the other hand, you just did NOT have sex outside of marriage or have affairs while in a marriage, without catching hell about it. When I got the hotel room for my girlfriend's and my first sexual encounter (the first one I had ever had), in the city where we were, we actually could have been ARRESTED for what we were doing as an unmarried couple. When I was younger, one night, when I masturbated to an orgasm for the first time and had my first ejaculation, my mother discovered what I had done, after it was over (I had fallen asleep with cum on me and on the bedsheet - not realizing I had squirted out anything) and you would have thought I had killed a family pet or set the house on fire or something terrible! When I was in middle school (then called junior high school), I used to lust after this blond girl sitting next to me in my afternoon Geography class - sneaking peaks at her and her lucious legs. I never even talked to her and pretended that I hadn't looked at her, however, after class, when the school day was over, I would sneak over to this isolated men's room, near the school gym, go in there and masturbate. One day, I came out of the restroom to find the head coach standing there. He said he had seen me going in there, that he wondered what I was doing in there for such a long time but that he figured that he knew. He said that I was a dirty pervert and that I was NOT to do that in school anymore (the day was over, people were leaving to go home, I wasn't bothering anybody, just going in the restroom to whack off before going home but that made me a major pervert) and if he caught me again, he would tell my parents. I went for YEARS, sneaking to masturbate wherever I could sneak to do it and feeling deep SHAME about it, figuring that I was the ONLY ONE doing it and that people would be disgusted with me if they found out! I had to quietly, secretly try to find books and other materials to try to learn about sex and what was going on with me and it was a LONG time before I realized that everybody else was secretly whacking off too (or the girls rubbing their clits in secret and so forth). And, yeah, that WAS the WRONG way for society to be back then. On the other hand, it nowadays seems like the "pendulum", so to speak, has swung the other way and sex is so totally "out there" and "in your face" and I don't know that it's good for us to be that way either. And, as for my first sexual experience with a woman, it is NOT something I look back on with fondness. I now enjoy sex, when my wife and I have it, however, it took a while to get to that point before I was married.

    OH WELL!! At least SF has given me a place to "open up" about all this and "get it off my chest". Thanks for reading this and my above posts to anyone who has read them. Please, please understand, I mean no offense whatsoever. Just joining in the discussion and saying what is on my mine and reading and respecting your opinions as well. I am also just in awe - not in a negative manner, just greatly interested to learn - that some of you folks have had many sex partners over the years. All I can say is "WOW" - if you all ever write any books about your sex lives, certainly I would be interested in reading them!
     
  14. barbie

    barbie New Member

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    That what forums like this one is for.We all have things to say that can't be said to friends and family.
    I lead a very sheltered life and there was no talk of sex in out house.I wished many times I could go to my Mom with questions but I never even tried.I let my kids know right away that I was there for them no matter what the problem.And you know my boys were always talking to me about stuff but my daughter I guess she is like me,just to shy.
     
  15. cbrmale

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    HerHubby,
    I am glad that the Swiss and Australian posters on this thread have provided some enlightenment that sex in or out of marriage is just good fun, and a healthy open sexual attitude makes for more enjoyable sexual experience. I also believe that openness about sex while someone is growing and developing helps a person when they get into their ultimate long-term relationship, be it marriage or de-facto.

    If you are brought up in an environment where all of society, and even one Christian church says that sex before marriage with someone you have feelings for is good, then not only do you receive the 'sex is good' message, it takes away all of the guilt or shame of what is a natural part of growing up.

    Some sex before your lifetime partner is good in its own right, you learn from each of your partners, and sometimes you teach your partners what you learned from someone else. I don't believe you need forty or more partners like me to achieve this by the way, but guilt-free sex with a few partners before marriage is good.
     
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