? for the ladies: Do nice guys finish first or last in your book and why?

This is what I think.


The real crux of the issue is that woman like men that respect them as beings, instead of simply as objects of desire. Even if you mistreat a woman, she will be more attracted to you if you mistreat her honestly than if you treat her well dishonestly.

What I mean is that many men treat woman "nicely" with the intention to get what is they want from them, which could be a variety of things, but mostly sex and affection.

It's not to say that wanting sex and affection from woman is in any way wrong. It's just that approaching it dishonestly is something that woman instinctively sense. When you pretend to be a noble and perfect gentleman, woman see right through you.

They'd rather be with an "a shole" who treat them like a real person and stands up for himself than a pushover who does the opposite.

Also, woman want a dominant leader of men, not a submissive man who acts like a woman.

The most important thing is simply confidence. Believe me, woman want to be treated well. If you can be confident and treat woman well than you will experience significantly more success than any "a hole" will.

If you've ever seen the kind of messages men send woman on dating sites like <removed link> you would understand exactly what i'm talking about. A lot of men send woman messages expressing their affection and love for a woman they don't even know. These messages read like love letters. It seems both delusional and manipulative to proclaim your love for a woman you have not even met in person, doesn't it?

nice guys will always finish first with me, always. act like a douchebag and i'm gonna treat you like a douchebag. you won't be getting any attention from me.

like i've said before, nothing is better than a genuine gentleman who is truly caring and sweet and does things out of kindness, not because he wants something. too many damn creepos out there always wanting something.

On the other hand, would you be attracted to a pushover who doesn't have leadership qualities?

i wouldn't really have a problem with that, i wouldnt say it's unattractive or a dealbreaker

Only nice guys finish first, unless in bed where they need to finish last.

Good question (though at first I thought the "finish first" part was referring to the sexual act ).

A while back I remember that there was a study showing that many women actually believe they prefer "nice guys" when in fact they constantly pick "bad boys".

Personally, I have seen clear examples of this a couple of times, and one girl was so frustrated that she tended to go towards the conclusion that "men are assholes". The fact was, she was attracted to that type of men while ignoring all others. I was not interested in that girl, but another one I had a bit of a crush on was generally regarded as very attractive. She could have chosen virtually any available guy (including me, but I am not bitter ). Years later I found out that the guy she had always liked turned into a wife-beater just weeks after their wedding.

It seems to me that "being confident" is very high on many women's lists of partner preferences, but that some people mistake narcissism for confidence. Please note that I am not saying this is true for all women. Some people clearly know their own preferences better than others. A few may also prefer the exact opposite of the typical "bad boy".

Personally, being over-polite was generally my only strategy for dating women for many years, and I had no clue what else to do. It never did me any good. In frustration I started to turn to strippers and hookers for female attention. I guess I picked up a slightly naughtier manner of flirting along the way, and guess what? It worked on my wife.

I think it is important to differentiate between "nice guy" and "wimp". When we dated Bunnie said it struck her that I was nice, but was not a wimp - she could not control me like other guys she had dated, who essentially would do anything for her and were at her beck and call in hopes of getting something physical. There were just a few lines in the sand I drew when we dated, and there were several occasions when she crossed them that we did break up with (I was nice, still being friendly, but just that). In her view she started finding that very attractive. Some of her friends did as well, since when she complained to them about these lines, they made comments to her such as "if you are going to break up with him over this, will you mind if I ask him out now?"

Just in my experience - which is likely different from many others - being nice, but not being a pushover, and coming across in a kind, laid back, but firm way, really seemed to intrigue women.

this is an issue that was so frustrating in my teens as i was nice and found all the girls went for the guys that were jerks, they would always complain about why the get cheated on and dumped, but then they would always find them self's with another drinking douche who thought he was cool that would do the same thing, and would always tell me that im way to nice and they were scared that it wouldn't work out and they didnt wanna break my hart......jerks.....i think all women say they want a nice guy but its just a front, they all want a man who will make them feel like a woman. not one who will treat them like a woman which is hat nice guys do....finish last!!!! at least in my experience and own opinion.

Confident, mature, good sense of humour, well off... That's the starting point, but the problem is how many atypical 'nice guys' have those attributes? There's been a few studies on this one, and one outcome is that women are more likely to be attracted to a bad boy when they are the most fertile. So there's a lot going on there.

Every man has got his own style, and I enjoyed reading Htoad's experience. I think my wife's attraction was (and is) based on confidence, maturity, humour and success. Also, I am, like him, very polite. But success isn't easy to come by, and generally it takes a bit of monstering to get there, and to stay there too. So you don't get often one without the other, I'm afraid. So there's good and bad, but the bad has made for an interesting ride for the two of us.

This is the way I've thought about it, women who choose the "bad boy" type of guy do it out of negligence or stupidity. The nice guy who doesn't assert himself isn't doing himself any good either.

I tend to agree with you here, many times you see the diff between what is said, and what is done. I rather hear the truth than BS.

My Bunnie, along with another woman, separately said this about the difference between narcissism and confidence, and I tend to agree with it: "When a narcissist guy makes a mistake, they will blame others and spend their time trying to convincing you it wasn't their mistake. When a confident person makes a mistake, they accept responsibility, move on, and don't shy away from the situation again".

It is kind of life the football receiver who drops a pass at a crucial time of the game. The narcissist will find all kinds of reasons, the way the pass was throw, the way he was being defended, the field conditions, etc. - as to why he dropped the pass. The confident one just returns to the huddle and just says "My bad. throw it to me again."

Based on my own experience, nice guys finish last. However...having said that...we (I am a nice guy and am including myself) always end up first. Sometimes it takes awhile...but the fairer sex catches on and figures out nice guy bad boys really are the best...

Semper Sans Ropa - Always Without Clothes

Nice guy bad boys, that's the perfect way to put it. If you have kind of a confident and cool badass thing going, while still being polite and sweet, the girls will almost always love that. It's not like guys have to be assholes or wimps. And a 50-50 compensation isn't what you want either. What you want is the best of both worlds, so that you can rock her world, whether it be through love letters or under the sheets.

OP: your argument is poor and you present only one option for "nice guys" creating a false premise to make your point. Not all "nice guys" are nice as a means of manipulating their way into a girls pants. If you can't see and understand that, then you're still leagues from being anywhere near your namesake.

Also, why is there still a link in his post if it was edited out?