POLL: What is your definition of "cheating"

This was inspired by Joe's question about confessing to cheating. First, I think you have to clearly define exactly what you consider to be cheating.

Keep in the mind: the perspective on these questions is if you do this behind your partner's back, not right in front of them (which could be exciting for all parties involved).

Think of the vote as your "default" perspective, and post comments to say under what circumstances you'd view your "default" decision differently. For instance, maybe you see being dry-humped by a stripper during a lap-dance as "not cheating" but it would be "cheating" in any other situation. Post the details on exceptions.

Also, answer based on what you personally think...not what you and your partner have conjuctively agreed on as "cheating" (post that as a comment).

BD

Seriously, dude, where's the poll?

Personally I think cheating is as cheating does. If you think something, like say, cybering, is cheating, then it is.

To me, any physical contact (Kissing, petting and beyond) with someone other than your wife/girlfriend is cheating. I don't personally consider phone or cyber sex to be cheating, but I think it's important that both people in the relationship have the same idea of what constitutes cheating. For example, if one person doesn't consider cyber to be cheating, but the other does, then it's cheating. Does that make sense?

If that were true, I'd still be here.

Yes, absolutely agreed...it should be the least common denominator of the two people. If one thinks fondling someone is technically cheating and the other does not, then the bar should be set at fondling someone IS considered cheating.

Excellent point!
BD

Patience, my dear!

I've made my thoughts on what I consder cheating pretty clear on other areas of the forum, so I won't go into it here, but I did want to relate an interesting story to you.

Years ago, a friend of mine was getting married to a guy she'd dated for years. They were rock solid in their relationship, to the naked eye. Anywho.. for his bachelor party, a stripper was brought in and the groom got really, really wasted and ended up going down on her while his friends rooted him on.

The next day, the bride found out about it and confronted him. He defended his actions by saying, "Eating ain't cheating."

The following week, she went out with some girls, got wasted drunk, picked up a guy in a bar and sucked him off in her car. She then went home and told her fiance' and when he lashed out at her she said, "Sucking ain't fucking."

Incredibly, the two of them still wed and from what I know, are still married, these some 15 years later. Strange thing, indeed.

Barbwire a.k.a. Cowboy Lover

OK, I posted my own votes. This is really making me consider my own definitions and what the exceptions might be. I think it's also a really good intimate talk topic for my wife and I, because I don't think we've ever explicitly discussed it.

For instance, I figured my wife would be totally pissed at me for getting a lap-dance at a strip club a while back, but she wasn't (in fact, she was turned on by it). I was pretty nervous about telling her this (since she wasn't there) probably because I thought she might see it as "almost cheating" (especially if the stripper had made me come). But I chose to be completely honest about all of it. This essentially comes down to dry-humping, which I *thought* we both *might* consider *almost* cheating. But then thinking back, my wife climbed in a friend's lap at a bar one night and started dry-humping him...at first I felt just a little jealous ("What's my crazy wife doing now?")...but that didn't last but a second because I was very entertained by it (got me quite turned on to watch! I was hoping that he got a hard-on and that she felt it...I certainly had some wood from watching...I kept thinking "ooo...I wish she'd come on him!"), and I didn't consider that to be anywhere near cheating (heavy flirting maybe?). Of course, I was right there watching...but I wouldn't have thought of it as anywhere near "cheating" even if I hadn't been right there. I recall that my friend's wife and I ended up "dirty dancing" with each other too (meaning a little bumpin' and grindin'). My spouse was dry-humping her spouse...I guess we figured "hey, why not?" I don't think my wife nor anyone saw that as "cheating"...we were all just being playfully naughty (which I really enjoyed! IIRC, my wife and I banged it out for quite a while after we got home!). In fact, I think I remember my wife teasing me while I was dancing with my friend ("Do you want us to leave you guys here while we go somewhere else?" or something like that...I don't think she felt jealous about it, but I probably should ask her now that I think about it.) These are some really old and close friends (in fact, one time the four of us ended up in bed together making out with our respective partners...ever since that night 12-13 years ago, we've always occasionally made some little inuendo or joke about having a foursome.). Overall, it just seemed like some playful naughtiness was perfectly OK.

One other thought...I don't think of giving someone a tongue-kiss as "cheating"...more as "really heavy flirting". But, I think my wife may consider that "cheating" based on some things she's said before...so I'll ask her. This ought to be a really good intimacy building talk for us.

So, to generalize for me...it looks like I think that if you're naked (and your partner is not aware of it), you're cheating...if you're fully clothed (and your partner's not aware of it), it's not cheating but maybe heavy flirting. Now, I generally try to be "good" when I'm anywhere, and I typically wouldn't engage in anything that I would think my wife might view as cheating. I'm actually much more likely to do something naughty right in front of my wife than if I am away from her. If she's right there, there's absolutely no possibility of it going anywhere she wouldn't want it to go, so it seems "safe" I guess.

Joe, thanks for your post and making me and others think through all this!

BD

...but at the end of the day, none of that matters. Two people can do ANYTHING with other people and, at the end of the day, if what they both really want, more than anything else, is to be together, end of story.

It's that simple and it's that complicated.

I think this is dead on. You've got a very good list there, BassDude. I had a hard time deciding whether some were "cheating" or not, and I think I'll read them to my wife and see what she thinks. Some are obvious (to me), and some I might consider cheating and might not, depending on the situation. I don't think I'd consider a lap dance in a strip club cheating, but take it to the parking lot in the back seat of your car and I would.

Yeah, I intentionally put some "grayness" into the list. The dry-humping for instance...my wife doesn't consider that cheating as long as it's a stripper delivering a lap dance in a club...but the physical act is the same as dry-humping someone in the back seat of your car. So...what makes one OK and the other not? What about the fact that the physical act is done in a club (it's paid, but hey, you could pay a hooker to dry-hump you in your car for that matter) makes it different from any other dry-humping scenario? Is it merely that one is "socially acceptable" while the other is not? Or is it the thought that one (the lap-dance) could not possibly go further than it's intended to while the other (dry-humping somebody in your car) could easily go further than originally intended? Of course, who can really say that a lap-dance in a club couldn't possibly go further than it was intended to, for that matter? At some point, this seems like it actually comes down to a matter of a conscious decision to trust or not trust someone.

Interesting...just looked at the poll results so far. More people think of a tongue-kiss as cheating than think of dry-humping as cheating...I think that's surprising, I would have thought the opposite! Also, only one person thought dancing erotically with someone (ie. bumpin' and grindin') would qualify as cheating...but isn't that a lot like dry-humping while standing up? A lot of folks think kissing someone passionately, say, on the neck, stomach, leg, etc. for instance is cheating...interesting. One of my buddies often kisses my wife on the neck when they greet...I'm gonna go kick his butt now fur cheatin with my wife! (Not! )

Am I being the devil's advocate here? Absolutely! In an absolute sense, I'm not sure it matters one bit what we individually do or do not think is cheating...I think what matters is really what you and your SO agree to as cheating or not...which means it's probably really important to talk this over with your partner if you haven't already!

BD

I think any interaction of a sexual nature, be it physical or nonphysical, is cheating, but that's only if two people haven't explicitly drawn up a list of boundaries. To put it another way: if you couldn't comfortably do it with your partner looking over your shoulder (or if you know she/he'd blow a gasket if they could only see what you were up to), you shouldn't be doing it.

Personally, I'm so easy to please...I'm really just a one-man woman at heart, I only need the right man and I'll be satisfied for the rest of my life.

*Learn About STIs/STDs* *STD Fact Sheets*

The most beautiful make-up of a woman is passion. But cosmetics are easier to buy. ~Yves Saint Laurent

The sexiest parts of my body are my brain, my heart, my spine, and my guts.

...barometer there is.

I think that cheating is doing anything with another person I'd be ashamed for my SO to see. Communication is always key, for defining boundaries, but it differs from person to person. What is a big deal to one person, may be a no-no for another person, so talk about it.But, in general, it's basically anything I'd be uncomfortable doing in front of him and, uncomfortable with him doing.

Shine on, you crazy diamond.

True, but here's the thing for me...I'm more comfortable doing something naughty in front of my wife (no guilt!) than I am doing something naughty when she's not around (would worry that she would be hurt or upset!). For instance, I was a little reluctant to get a lap-dance at a strip bar a few months ago...but a few shots, enough dancers asking, and remembering that my wife climbed into a guy friend's lap in front of me a while back changed my mind! Thoughts on this perspective?

BD

I know there are many, many people who don't consider lap dances a form of cheating--I would never call it that. I think it's a courteous and respectful thing to ask permission beforehand, but I don't think it actually violates any implicit rules of fidelity.

*Learn About STIs/STDs* *STD Fact Sheets*

The most beautiful make-up of a woman is passion. But cosmetics are easier to buy. ~Yves Saint Laurent

The sexiest parts of my body are my brain, my heart, my spine, and my guts.